Why Aren’t We Talking About This?
Trump’s goons came within seconds of grabbing Mike Pence. Let me ask a question: do you think they would have performed a citizen’s arrest and taken Pence to a judge to get his warning and see a magistrate?
Oh hell no. They killed one cop, cut fingers off another and Trump didn’t even send out a nasty tweet about them.
Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 6, 2021
This tweet went out about 10 minutes after it was reported that Pence had been taken off the floor.
Trump saw what was happening. Mike Pence, who had stuck by Trump through at all, was issued a death warrant. Those Republican senators have to wonder if they are next. Is Trump going to put a bounty on their heads?
I am convinced that Trump wanted Mike Pence dead just to put terror in the hearts of any who crosses him. I am. I am convinced. I think he is that evil.
Not forgetting the cobbled gallows and noose awaiting the mob’s fury. Events were governed by coincidence, chaos and seconds, welling up from a deranged autocrat’s mouth foaming anger.
1My advice is to not underestimate Jaimie Raskin.
2megasoid, no disrespect intended, but that gallows was anything but cobbled together. I still haven’t seen video of it actually being built, which I find interesting. But the material used to build wasn’t trash laying around. It was new looking lumber. Pre measured and pre cut. The vertical posts were plumb and square with each other and the horizontal piece on top. The steps I saw were level as was the platform. That doesn’t just happen.
3That structure was well planned and built with pride of workmanship.
If I were any of those Senators – Dem. or GOP – I’d be worried that one of those nuts would attack me on the street, at my office or my home. The people at the Jan. 6th riot had more than a few crazies! One more reason to do the right thing and show that even the President can be convicted and his followers will too.
4Seems to me, if I were a GOP Congress Critter, scared of Trump, now is the time to go Brutus on him and get rid of the “ Wannabe Caesar” while the getting is good. Just in self defense. They can’t be happy looking behind themselves all the time, “ Is it now my turn under the bus. “
5“Trump wanted Mike Pence dead just to put terror in the hearts of any who crosses him.”
I agree.
6Trump has always operated under a shoot first and ask questions later strategy. Why? Because he always gets away with it. Most Republicans in the Senate now encourage more of the same, even when its clearly against their self interest.
One of the defenses that had been raised is that because the attack on the capital was not spontaneous, Trumpf couldn’t have incited it. Trumpf’s body of work to overturn the election and invite the cult to DC on Jan 6th for a wild day is the whole point. The evidence is many arrested have stated that in fact they did participate because Trumpf directed them. Pence gave him cover (along with much of the repugnantican Congress) right up until the insurrection threatened him personally. 6 repugnantican senators know that and hopefully 11 more will be persuaded to join them. Sure wish some of those arrested would be called to testify.
7Wish that was more than just wishful thinking, though.
Mike, it’s not personal, it’s just business. I’m sure you understand.
8Don
Steve @ 7:
9Yes. They went there with a purpose, at trump’s instructions. Just like Joe Neguse is laying out amazingly well.
And they went prepared.
Yes- and here’s a good example:
https://www.rawstory.com/proud-boys-2650430669/
But again, repugnanticans are going to say Trumpf’s actions don’t rise to the level of impeachment, it’s unconstitutional, or it’s going to divide the country. I say, who the eff do they think divided the country – on purpose? Since 2015.
10‘Evil?’ Evil suggests an over-arching malice. And while I would be the first to acknowledge it, I think it’s Trump’s egolatry that prevails. It’s not that he *isn’t* malicious, it’s that he’s so much more self-concerned that hurting others is almost an afterthought.
And I reject the notion that Trump is psychologically debilitated, because the mentally infirm can be forgiven. Egolatry and petulant hissy-fit-ism cannot.
11Mike,
12It’s not personal, it’s business. I hope you understand.
Don
Where is Pence?? He’s been the man that isn’t there since the riot. Have they stashed him in a safe house due to Trump calling him out?
13Jace said:
“Where is Pence??“
Is there a Non-Witness Protection Program?
14If you are trying to make me feel sympathy for Pence, it is not working.
Although the ‘gallows’ may have been carefully made, it was not functional. Too flimsy.
There was an awful lot of cosplay going on on Jan. 6. It was a good thing here was not a detachment of underfed sailors on hand as there was in Kiel in 1918 and St Petersburg in 1917.
I am not underselling the malevolence of the plan — the part that was planned — but the competence level was as low as could be.
15The tragedy is we have had numerous opportunities to get this right. We haven’t gotten it right because people continually look at the fact that 45 has failed miserably in all of his attempts to subvert democracy. He’s had multiple attempts. They’ve all failed. They excuse it because it’s failed. They excuse it because there have been people around him that have made sure it has failed. You don’t excuse the jackass that shoots at your dog just because he missed. He will shoot at him or her again. You wish someone in the GOP would understand this.
16If the final verdict of the Ratbastard’s Second Impeachment trial were to be on a secret vote basis, Didjiot would probably be found guilty as hell. And more importantly, also barred from all future federal office.
So, can it be a secret Senate jury vote?
.
17The Trumpanzees over at ‘Patriots.Win’ are noticeably subdued lately, with a manageable level of craycray. Probably all sweating profusely. Curious, since they played a significant role in the runup to, and actions, on January 6th [ as the previous website ‘thedonald.win’ , even the Rufous Ratbastard would show up sometimes].
https://patriots.win/
Secret Service codeword for Pence:
Flypaper.
18Sandridge, I think a secret vote would be very close to a guilty verdict. Reading on Politico that moscow mitch is telling repugnanticans to “vote their conscience” whatever that would mean to a repugnantican senator. 90% of repugnanticans in congress are scared shitless of the cult.
19Politico also writes that people close to mitch say that he’s still undecided on his vote. I’d love to think he’d vote like he talked on the night of Jan 6th, but I’m afraid that’s wishful thinking because he’d spend the next 6 years looking over his shoulders and out of power. And he’s addicted to his power.
slipstream @17, Komrade Donnei has a few nics too [general ones, can only imagine the SS ones].
This guy has collected almost 700 so far:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/2/10/2015038/-By-His-Names-You-Shall-Know-Him-Derisive-Nicknames-Of-Trump
There was a story about Stormy Daniels talking about her ’90 worst seconds ever’ with Donnei ‘shroom…the Broderick Crawford/Dan Mathews of the bedroom.
20I thought it was odd that the Pence’s don’t have a home to go to, and are staying with friends. Now I think they’re hiding out from the Trump cabal.
21Harry Eagar says @14
“Although the ‘gallows’ may have been carefully made, it was not functional. Too flimsy.”
With the rope at the far side of the platform, it wouldn’t be functional for a “drop” method … but for strangulation? One photo shows a young woman on the platform, and the noose is lower than her shoulder. Another woman, with a Trump flag as a cape, holds the rope up at an angle, and the noose is lower than the top of the flag and the bottom of the flag is near the ground. So, less than 5 feet from the platform to the noose — even Pelosi would be able to stand up on tiptoe and keep the noose loose.
Also, the gallows is set up near Madison Drive and 3rd Street, close to Pennsylvania Avenue. That’s a couple of city blocks from the Capitol Steps — probably 0.25 or 0.3 miles away. Hardly ideal for street theater.
22I agree with you, Juanita.
23Today’s presentation in the Senate is utterly chilling.
That mob wanted to kill.
I thought I could not be more shook up than I was on Jan. 6. I was wrong.
Harry @ 14: I agree. Pence made his bed and all that. As far as the qallows, I never said structural engineers load tested it. It’s purpose was probably optics, and if so it was perfect.
24But they didn’t tear down some nearby she’d for lumber. It was new. But it wasn’t delivered on a flatbed trailer to the Capitol building, measured, cut on site and put together like a backyard jungle gym. I’ve done that. And it takes time, without screaming f**king thugs swarming by probably wanting to use my 4×4s as battering rams. It was probably partially assembled somewhere with the hardware attached for ease of assembly in a chaotic situation with minimal effort on site. Packed to the Capitol grounds on foot by multiple people with the same objective from wherever the closest point was they could get to with a truck.
My point is, this was something planned in advance, and executed pretty well by multiple people in a chaotic situation. Not something people thought up in the heat of the moment.
Premeditation and conspiracy.
What’s waste of time
https://mobile.twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1359635279758438406?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1359651313886322690%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdisqus.com%2Fembed%2Fcomments%2F%3Fbase%3Ddefaultf%3Deschatont_u%3Dhttps3A2F2Fwww.eschatonblog.com2F20212F022Falmost-didnt-have-mittens-to-kick.htmlt_d%3DEschaton3A20Almost20Didn27t20Have20Mittens20To20Kick20Around20Anymoret_t%3DEschaton3A20Almost20Didn27t20Have20Mittens20To20Kick20Around20Anymores_o%3Ddescversion%3D29c202bd5375a83aaa456b585075cb15
I say what a waste of breath
25Pence was last allegedly spotted couch surfing near around 50 miles from us. No word on whether the insurgent from the same town was allowed bail.
Unmentioned in the coverage of Pence being led to safety at the Capitol was his secret service detail. He wouldn’t have been dragged off and strung up, but the death toll would have been much higher. The clip wasn’t long enough or clear enough to differentiate between vp staff and security detail, but it’s a good bet they were well armed. Policy is to protect the principal and the G will pick up any tab.
26@ Ms. Jaunita Jean I’m sorry, whose fingers were cut off?!?!?!
27After watching parts of those videos of the insurrectionists attacking the legislative branch of OUR government in furtherance of a RWNJ coup d’etat on behalf of a Hitler wannabe, all I can wonder is:
Where the hell is the Ohio National Guard when you need it? [not that the 1970 ONG were very disciplined, effective, or accurate…]
28The crazies are spouting some new conspiracy theory that has something, something to do with a supposed Supreme Court opinion in 1871 that makes all subsequent presidents illegitimate. They are also claiming they are coming back to DC on March 4 to declare the Orange Moron is actually the 19th (!) president and still is. I dunno. With most of those idjits worrying about a knock on their doors any minute–not to mention how many are already sitting in the sneezer awaiting trial–I doubt this will amount to much.
But, I’m sure the Mayor will once again ask us to stay away from the downtown area (the Capitol and its grounds are all still fenced off) that day and, because we are all smart girls and boys, we will heed that message.
29He did not care who was harmed that day. I suspect he thought that his mob would do more harm and he would get to declare some sort of emergency and stay in power. Apparently, some of his goons have figured out that he fooled them, that he was never going to do anything to defend or protect them. Did they think they were really going to take over and run things???? Fools who posted selfies while committing crimes. That is a special level of stupid. He does not attract people with lots of intelligence or good sense.
30Scotty @ 25 It was reported at the time that Pence’s detail was well-armed. I had a colleague who, years ago, happened to be standing next to a Secret Service car when the trunk was opened.
It was full of Uzis and similar weapons.
I forget which cable network did the reporting but Pence’s detail had high-capacity weapons drawn. I don’t know if any they were carrying were full automatic but nowadays thathardly matters.
To me the question is, if the cops had shot a couple of protesters at the door right at he start, would the rest have run away? I think so.
31Jane at #21 thinks it odd Mike and Karen Pence are couch-surfing with friends.
Those initial reports were mistaken. They have been on St. Croix since the insurrection.
https://viconsortium.com/vi-politics/virgin-islands-st-croix-is-such-a-beautiful-island-mike-pence-says-after-dining-at-duggans-reef-
(Virgin Islands Consortium)
Back in late January, the Virgin Islands Daily News reported him there, meeting with Administrator Sammuel Sanes.
http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/news/former-vp-pence-seen-on-st-croix/article_367d4e98-6eec-55ba-9ac7-1232a06eb367.html
Since the February 1 report in the Consortium, there have been no news reports on the Pences’s location.
32Yes, I would like to know about that “fingers cut off” thing too.
33TK Fairfax & AK Lynne
34One of the injured officers is reported to have “lost three fingers”. Whether that was by cutting, smashing or some other method, I don’t know.
“Is Trump going to put a bounty on their heads?”
only if someone else will pay it, because you know he won’t.
35From Newsweek; maybe a positive sign.
1. Leningrad Lindsey speaks to an audience of one, Donnie.
2. He lies. A lot. Even by QOP ‘standards’.
3. If Lin Lin says “it’s raining,” that’s a cue to break out the suntan oil.
Could be just sputter/false bravado. Or not …
36JJ, agreed. Pence was lucky to escape with his life. Someone else who was also lucky was Mitt Romney who was not in the chamber but out in one of the halls. A Capitol Hill cop got him just in time to run and hide. Can’t see why a lot of these Repubs don’t just switch parties. No matter how much they kowtow to Trump, its not gonna help them stay in power even if their districts are as red as dripping blood. Their constituents have discovered that they are merely mortal and can be toyed with just like a cat with a ball of yarn, and maliciously so. I am betting that Pence does not feel safe and secure wherever he is now and never will.
37Even if the mob only attempted to grab Pence, his protection detail would have opened fire. And then how many people would have died? Not to mention Pence’s family being with him…
38Y’all I heard a really good podcast episode. Fivethirtyeight.com is usually nerdy polling stuff. But last week they brought in three Republican strategists/analysts to ask them what’s next for their party. Lots of insights. The pollster of the three, Kristen Soltis Anderson, said of the Republican voters she surveys or sees in focus groups, there are 1) some core principles they consider required, including tax cuts, abortion and strong defense, 2) hardly any other policy must-haves, and 3) a strong bias toward a candidate who “fights.” Remember in the 2016 primaries Trump was not the most conservative, he was considered a moderate. But while the others tried to debate each other about policy, Trump just talked tough. He didn’t say much of substances, but he left no doubt–“he fights.” That was Anderson’s summation of what Republicans want in their politicians. Thus the popularity of the uncouth and wackadoo Rep. Greene from Georgia–“she fights.”
I said all that to say, when people ask what is going on in the heads of Republican Senators this week, they’re all aware of this mood in their voters, and they’re all looking for ways to seem pugilistic. Rand Paul is doodling, Hawley has his feet up doing paperwork. To get back to JJ’s post, do the R Senators think they could have been carried to the gallows by the mob? The savvy ones knew that if the mob reached them, they’d have stayed alive by taking up a 2X4 and smashing things right alongside the rioters. Fighting is what the R voters want. I’m not even sure that setting the building on fire and declaring America a dictatorship would have pleased R voters as much as what actually happened, general mayhem. They don’t want change so much as they want leaders who fight.
Because of that I don’t see R Senators voting to convict, if it makes them seem anti-fighting. Trump fights, they think, so we want him to fight more.
39there’s “fighting” and then there is wanton savagery like we saw on the sixth of January. I was brought up on the basis of the Marquis of Queensbury rules. Never had to use them but I am sure aware of them. Seems like the savages have never heard of this guy. Ten to one there is a damn good deal of funcitonal illiteracy among them.
40Rick @ 6:
Trump wasn’t just doing a “shoot first and ask questions later,” thang.
What you described is how mob bosses act. That’s what Trump is.
41I think the impeachment managers were ill-advised to make so much of the chance that pence might have been rent limb from limb.
Who cares? It was Mike Pence.
There was a video clip that I would have rolled out more than twice, the one where one of the mobsters announced their goal as destroying the Republican Party.
That ought to move a Republican senator more than the prospect of Pence in hell.
42