The Fever Dreams of Trumpists
Last night I extricated myself from a FB conversation. Yes, it was one of THOSE conversations, started by one of my conservative acquaintances who has become a Never Trumper. A couple of days ago, he asked what act would turn his Trumpist friends against The Orange One. The answer (nothing) was predictable; what was shocking was the nonsense they spewed in a continuous stream to justify that. Intellectually, we all sense that Trumpists are unbalanced and misinformed. When it’s laid out in plain English on social media, it makes your hair hurt.
One Trumpist would deflect all questions about Trump to Biden and his son, Hunter. He would simply not address any of the issues about Ukraine or the thousands and thousands of easily disproven lies from Trump. His source is Sean Hannity and he actually begged me to watch his show to “get the facts” that were going “to bury” Biden and his son. He would only gloat about how Biden is “cooked” and would not even address the question. Another Trumpist resorted to immediate grade school name calling and wanted to bet all comers $2,500 that Trump would not be impeached and that he would again be elected president. He didn’t like I said I didn’t believe I wanted to bet on the level of stupidity of Trumpists.
One Trumpist kept quoting the Bible. One even quoted Shakespeare, which I found entertaining. One kept quoting the lies of Peter Schweizer, author of Clinton Cash, one of those fact free “investigative” books that makes people’s brains soft. One said he would only vote against Trump if “he was convicted of a crime”. He seemed puzzled when I said that was impossible since DOJ policy didn’t allow a sitting president to be indicted for crimes they committed.
The one who took the cake? The QAnon Trumpist. I have never had a social media conversation with anyone as unhinged as this one. These folks are obsessed with pedophilia, and have this weird article of faith that the “Deep State”, whatever that is, is somehow covering up Hillary’s pedophilia ring that has “pedavores” as members. I have no idea what a “pedavore” is, and don’t want to know. This person was so unhinged that even the most Trumpist of Trumpists paused their ranting momentarily, one even saying, “I don’t even know what that means.” I burst out laughing at that one, almost spilling my Jack on the rocks on my keyboard.
What I learned during this exchange was that to a person no level of corruption, criminality, or misconduct would cause a Trumpist to think again. The really disheartening lesson was that how thoroughly these people are brainwashed with pure unadulterated bullshit. We knew that the Hillary nonsense is encoded in the DNA – but right alongside those lies, the lies about Biden and his son have already been ingrained. The facts have no bearing on these opinions; none. I have finally given up even trying to talk to these people because I make no progress. The message framing, as defined by George Lakoff, a linguist and retired professor of language at Berkeley, is perfect. This message framing hits all the emotional buttons of fear, belonging, and Them vs. Us. Once that kind of messaging becomes encoded, it’s almost impossible to alter it, and that’s what we’re witnessing.
These people are beyond reach of reason and critical thinking. The only way they can be beaten is to neutralize them at the voting booth, and that requires the engagement in massive numbers of normal people who haven’t been brainwashed. That is a huge task.
The Trumpist motto is: “my mind is made up, don’t confuse me with the facts.”
I sometimes think they have it tattooed on the inside of their eyelids, to remind them with each blink not to be “seduced” by actual facts.
When they’re that far gone, you can’t change them. remember Jonestown? 900 people drank koolaid (and forced their kids to as well) and died because of a madman who convinced them of, well, something. We have tens of millions who are drinking Spankee’s koolaid right now. Waste of time to think otherwise.
And let’s not forgot: Ol’ Dickie Milhouse still had nearly 30% approval ratings (all Goopers!) on the day he resigned and left office. Betcha there are a bunch of folks who STILL believe he got a raw deal.
1Great post as usual. I simply do not have the fortitude or graciousness to engage with these people (I am related to some of them). But, seems the greatest danger is that these folks will still be around if we are successful at removing the narcissist from the White House. Unlike the Nixon era, a more benign time, these people are dangerous ideological idiots. I expect there will be bloodshed. Not certain what to do, although purchasing an AR-15 to protect myself from the raging sycophants has crossed my mind. I did learn how to use that weapon in basic training. I’m not there yet, but the thought persists.
2Here is my take.
As we all know, right wing conservatives (or movement conservatives if you prefer) are driven by anger. What seems to have happened, though, is these people are in fact quite angry but they have forgotten what they are angry about. They have buried it in themselves for some reason but it hasn’t gone away — but boiling deep like that it has really driven them clinically insane. (The definition of which is the inability to deal with reality.)
I am pretty sure I know what that thing actually is. Over the years I have notice there is one, consistent, unalterable, core tenant that triggers them without fail. It transcends their religious beliefs. It can override their abhorrence for gun laws. In the face of it they don’t care about the environment or any government regulation. Law and Order mean nothing.
It can be summed up like this: Don’t take my hard earned money I earned with nobody’s help and give it away to non-white people. I will leave it to you as to what words they actually use when they think this but they definitely don’t see themselves as racist. Only logical and fair.
So that anger is there and they can’t express it because they don’t want to be exposed as racist. But if that is really the core driver it isn’t really all that difficult to see why Trumpers behave the way they do. To them a Clinton or a Gore or a Kerry or a Warren or an AOC is all about taking their money and giving it to welfare queens. Trump to them represents the apex of white supremacy but they have to pretend that their support isn’t about race.
So — no positive fact about a Democrat is allowed. No negative fact about a Republican and especially Trump is allowed. Hence El Jefe’s oft-repeated experience.
They were the same about Bush and before that Regan. So this isn’t new.
Understanding this doesn’t solve the problem but it does help your own sanity.
3The GOP is a cult, and FOX News is the kool aid.
FOX really is a scourge. It corrupts the weak minded and uninformed, telling them just what they need to hear to buy the rest of it. And the rest of it is a whopper.
Before corporations are no longer people? FOX News needs to be help accountable for their treason and their corruption. Corporate Capital Punishment would certainly be in order.
4@Alan: Behind all that anger is hate and fear. They’re afraid of getting older, they’re afraid of being somehow replaced. They’re afraid of ever decreasing wealth. They fear what they see as responsible: immigrants taking their jobs, foreigners even in their own countries, people of color, Democrats. Funny thing… very few of these people vote Republican. And another, not so funny thing? The objects of this hate, anger, and fear are all established and constantly reinforced by FOX News and other conservative media. It’s a vicious cycle that needs to be broken.
5Observation: Since before 2016 Russian interference has provided a constant stream of influence at the margins to cement the narrative of Faux Corp and Sinclair and even the InfoWars-like Q narrative. This is just the results of a true conspiracy to keep firearms loaded and “freedumb caucus” candidates in office. It’s not just paranoia, they really are out to get us…
6@Paul ADK: Yes fear and anger are two sides of the same coin. And hate comes from that.
7Well hell, El Jefe, glad that you and others are finally concluding what I did 20-40 years ago.
Ramping up when the Cheney-Bush regime seized power, when encountering many proto-Teabaggers, proto-MAGAots, proto-Trumpists back then. Most of them co-workers, and even a brother [who became so rabid that we where near armed conflict, no contact in ~8 years now].
JFC, I remember the John Bircher’s from the 1960’s on, the core of what these maniacs have become.
You CANNOT reason with, debate with, engage with, ever convince of any point of logic or sanity, these raving Republican zombies. There is no longer any point or reason to.
Just turn out a massive number of Democratic votes in 14 months. Beating them in the elections, no matter how much they jack with the process.
Then, as others have hinted at, be prepared, truly prepared, for the titanic struggle to follow a win: An actual civil war!
8There is only one way to wage it too, and an AR-15 is inadequate by itself [somebody I know also has various shotguns, pistols, and knows explo….s quite well…]…
El Jefe – your words are the truth. I see all those who are still totally devoted to the orange toad, and I cannot understand it at all.
9The only way to change their minds is to shame them. But they have no shame. I remember a few months after Nixon resigned, no one would admit to voting for him. Their shame was late, but they were ashamed.
10I believe a pedavore is someone that only eats the feet of animals.
11Tom@11–you beat me to it, though I do not think it has to be only animals!
12Yes to all the above.
Tom and Jo:
Especially if said being has cloven hooves.
Like the devil.
13@Ralph Wiggam #10:
Heh. For YEARS afterwards MA residents could use the slogan, “Don’t blame me, I’m from Massachusetts”.
And #11-13, I’m old enough to remember bar food that included pickled pigs feet (as well as eggs). Honestly, they weren’t bad…
14Got Kool-Aid?
15We do!
Fox News.
Why I’m not on Facebook.
16“When it’s laid out in plain English on social media, it makes your hair hurt.”
17Beautiful, EJ, thanks.
Alan @ 3:
18That explanation is one of the best I’ve seen. Are there other factors for different individuals?
Of course. But that thread runs through every bit of messaging put out from the alternate reality maintenance infrastructure in which Fox is the closest thing to fair and balanced. Lakoff nailed it. Anybody who hasn’t already read “Don’t think of an Elephant” should do so.
I was off the rock and in town (Portland, Maine) today, and I sincerely regret I didn’t have my phone when I saw this on the back of a big pickup truck. “If you still support Trump, please stay at least 500 feet behind me. I don’t trust your judgment.”
19I learned a while back that when discussing any issue, to determine early on if the position held was based on faith. If so, the position held will never be changed by any evidence to the contrary.
The question to ask yourself is “why continue the conversation?”
It’s time consuming, energy consuming, frustrating, etc….very much the same as trying to teach a pig to sing….stupid.
Having a discussion with someone who holds the opposite view but who listens and brings up rational counterpoints is exactly the opposite of trying to lead a choir of pigs. It enable you both to test and retest your positions and possibly generate more enlightened positions. I so value the few conservative friends who will engage me under those conditions.
20Rinse & repeat ad nauseum..knee jerk hypnotically induced responses to any criticism of Muammar Al Trump. FYI- last evening in the car, switched to NPR at two different times to try to get grounded in some since of media sanity, only to hear two different reports about “Hunter and Joe.” The Hannity deflection scam has very long arms……
21“Sense” – dang it.
22Maybe the Qanon guy men pedovore, which is – someone who eats children? Wouldn’t surprise me. The only thing they have left to accuse Hillary of is cannibalism.
You know when this really started to change? When talk radio took hold. I grew up in Wyoming. It was pretty conservative, but also live and let live. We even had a Democratic Senator, and I think Rep. But for decades, in their cars, their businesses, their homes; people in rural areas have been exposed to an endless torrent of right wing garbage. No wonder it’s become ingrained.
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