Deja Vu
This whole Joe Rogan situation has just blown up. If we have an inkling that we’ve seen this before it’s because we probably have. At least we have seen the Neil Young portion of the proceedings before. Young has made a habit of combatting on free speech issues. Who knows? Maybe he has learned something in the intervening decades.
We should start with the deja vu all over again portion of this story. This is not censorship. Nobody has drafted any law keeping Rogan from doing what he is doing. Nobody is throwing Joe Rogan in jail for what he has been saying. Spotify is a private company that has the ability to make its own decisions regarding content. What we are seeing is that artists also have the right to choose where their art is showcased.
I think I had one Neil Young CD from back in the day. I have no idea where it is. I don’t own anything Joni Mitchell has produced. I’m not even sure if either of them have produced anything this century. I did go to a Crosby, Stills, and Nash concert once, but Young wasn’t there. That’s about as close as I have gotten to these particular artists.
However, if you take a step back, this whole story becomes fascinating. One facet is the Joe Rogan facet of the discussion. Still, that’s only the beginning. Spotify themselves are just another platform for music and podcasts, but they have taken a serious hit. Meanwhile, a boycott that started with two artists that haven’t done anything relevant in at least 30 years suddenly has grown beyond that.
The final leg in these protests has been the consumer reaction. Businesses like Spotify sign guys like Rogan because it helps expand their brand. Rogan has millions of listeners and if Spotify can be the one place you can hear it then you have to subscribe to Spotify. It makes perfect sense.
As a consumer of music and occasional consumer of podcasts I get it. There are literally hundreds of musicians and podcasts on Spotify that I would never listen to. Rogan’s is one of them. It’s not a hardcore protests on my part. He just isn’t my cup of tea. I don’t begrudge him his spot any more than I would begrudge any gangster rapper that I would never listen to. They are there for people that enjoy their work.
The question for us and for people like Rogan is what responsibility they have. Rogan is first and foremost an entertainer. He was on New Radio back in the day. He hosted Fear Factor. He was a co-host on the Man Show. It’s difficult to look at that resume and somehow come away thinking he is meant to be taken seriously. I’m sure he would tell you the same thing.
Yet, he has his staunch defenders. I made this same point on Twitter last night and was lambasted by some guy that asserted that Rogan had on medical experts that know more than Dr. Fauci. Sure. Keep in mind that I said nothing negative about Rogan. All I said was that he probably wasn’t meant to be taken completely seriously.
The question was never whether Rogan had the right to say what he does, those artists have the right to pull their catalog, or consumers having the right to quit Spotify. The question was never whether Spotify had the right to pay Rogan or not pay Rogan. The question is how we manage to put things in proper context. Rogan is an entertainer. Entertainers can inform, but that is not their primary function. Somewhere along the way we collectively got lazy. When did we start relying on entertainers to be our primary outlet for information?
I think that it’s telling that Young and Mitchell are both polio survivors and therefore have no tolerance for anti-vax pandering.
1I have many Neil Young albums and have loved and listened to Joni Mitchell for decades. They are formative artists for my youth. I am so proud of them for removing their art from Spotify. I tried to quit Spotify but since I am not a member but just a listener, I could not reach the unsubscribe option. I have turned them off all my devices and will never open their tab again. As Juanita Jean says, “They can kiss my big blue butt.”
2Meh. All that is necessary is to read Rogan’s non-apology apology to distinguish between the freedom of speech and exploiting a bunch of dupes for dollars aka the freedumb of speech. Why not? John Roberts certainly gave a greenlight to exploitation when he declared corporations to be people. The combination of technology and dollars isn’t speech, it’s a conservative shriek.
Ask Cecile Richards, or the members of Planned Parenthood and NARAL who have been at the brunt of shrieking lying conservative attacks for decades. Stopping lies meant to do great harm is not censorship.
Expand SCROTUS. And yes, stack it with intelligent women, especially women perceived to be minorities. Let them sort out the amplification of wealth in technology issues as regards “free speech” in the 21st century.
3I just read he has a $100,000,000 contract for his podcast. Where does this money come from?
4Not disputing your last point, but in the interest of “both sides are not the same”, I’m quite sure I can get good, factual, relevant info from entertainers such as Stephen Colbert and Trevor Noah…unlike Tucker & his ilk.
5People don’t want to pay for serious journalism, they are happy with opinion.
6Jill Ann,
Jon Stewart did an excellent interview with Rachel Maddow years ago that addressed this subject. Essentially, there is a difference between the primary aim of the program and the means used to accomplish that end. Stewart, Colbert, Noah are in the satire business. They are primarily entertainment. Obviously, they are more factual than others because their particular brand of satire wouldn’t be as effective if it weren’t. Rogan is also primarily about entertainment but obviously is not rooted in fact because his brand of entertainment is different. Still, the primary purpose is to entertain. That doesn’t change the takeaway that consumers have to know what they are getting. If Rogan passes himself as an expert then that’s a problem. If he acknowledges that he is there to entertain then that’s our problem
7Good for Neil Young. He also told trumpf to quit using his music at his lie fests/rallies. Think he threatened to sue the orange buffoon.
8I’ve been a Neil Young fan for well over 50 years. The year I graduated high school (‘68), he and the Buffalo Springfield played in our school gymnasium. Even with poor acoustics, it was one of the best concerts I ever attended. Also saw him a few times with CSNY over the years. I have his music on my play list as we speak along with his band’s stuff. He has some great music available for anyone interested, especially if you are my age.
As for Rogan, glad the prick has been called out for his lies.
Wowser. Couldn’t read past this: “…two artists that haven’t done anything relevant in at least 30 years…” That’s why I don’t listen to Mozart or Bach. That cheesy pop music of long ago didn’t hold up either.
9Steve from Beaverton –
10I’ve been a Neil Young fan as long as you have.
I’ll only add, Neil has Crazy Horse. Joe has Crazy. With a capital C.
@Halster—I agree. Mozart and Bach. What a couple of has beens. And they haven’t posted any videos on TikTok either. What’s up with that?
11The more I read Nick, the more I think he, too, is just an entertainer.
12Rogan is entertaining like tucker carlson with lies that are not entertaining but damaging. Entertains like TFG. Neil young is entertaining.
13SiriusXM features Neil Young [and CSNY] with program blocks on the “Deep Tracks” channel 27, among others.
https://www.siriusxm.com/search?q=Neil%20Young
14Even more :
“Neil Young Radio returns exclusively to SiriusXM for a limited time…
Following its launch last month for a limited time, Neil Young Radio has exclusively returned to SiriusXM as a satellite and streaming channel, presenting the entire musical world of legendary musician Neil Young.
Tune in to Neil Young Radio now on its limited-engagement home, Deep Tracks (Ch. 27), through February 4 at 3am ET, and then from February 4 through February 26 at 3am ET on Channel 505. Listen to the channel now on the SXM App:”
https://blog.siriusxm.com/neil-young-radio-2022/
15Can’t please everyone I guess.
16“Can’t please everyone I guess.”
As another ’60’s singer Ricky Nelson pointed out in his song Garden Party:
… No one recognized me, I didn’t look the same
17But it’s all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can’t please everyone, so ya got to please yourself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PECmjB9df0w
Rick @ 17, bingo, a true winner.
Sandridge @ 15 major thanks for the links! 4 generations of Neil Young fans here. One of the better gifts to my parents, grandparents and myself was taking the time to consolidate all of their reel to reel, vinyl, 8-track and cassettes preserved for KJ and Jack to enjoy.
Nick @16, buck up boyo! You have the WMDBS reading and commenting. You are obviously a kind and thinking man who also shares. But keep in mind the Qcumber conservatives are everything you are not. Do not let them take your kindness for weakness or otherwise exploit your decency. There is no “both sides” to the conservative perfidy. Those fascists are out to destroy democracy.
18Regardless of how somebody feels about Neil Young’s relevance, and I’ve been a big fan for 45ish years, there’s something that I don’t think is getting said nearly enough.
19The other morning early on CNN this was being talked about. One of the panel members was a CNN commentator and Republican political operative named Scott Jennings.
He was in no way combative, rude, or talking over people.
He was very pleasantly repeating how amusing he thought it was that Neil Young was all for free speech unless he didn’t like it, and then wanted it censored.
Jovially even.
Repeatedly.
The CNN hosts were trying to push back, but to me they were missing the point.
Because IMHO what shoulda been said then, and
every. Single. Time it comes up is that Ole Neil didn’t do what he did because he didn’t like Joe Rogan’s political views or opinions.
I never heard that he threatened to leave over anything any political commentator said.
He did what he did because the First Amendment doesn’t protect speech when it’s yelling fire in a crowded theater.
But as long as republicans can keep pounding the free speech drum in defense of crap that’s killing people and causing who knows how many long term health problems, then just simply telling folks to show up and protest election results is no big deal. Hey it’s not the speaker’s fault if the protesters get just a smidge rambunctious and shit on the floor of the Capitol.
And when the same free speaker just maybe suggests protesting in D.C., New York, or Atlanta if anything bad might happen, well hell’s bells, he’s just exercising his god given First Amendment rights.
Thanks everyone for the comments. Yes, I am a big boy so my one liner is meant in the spirit that it was intended. You can’t please everyone. The question is pretty clear. Do entertainers have a solemn obligation to also inform? Everyone remembers the “War of the Worlds.” How explicitly do we need to tell consumers that something is not to be taken seriously?
Obviously something that calls itself Fox NEWS or OAN NEWS or NEWSMax is whole different ballgame. If you call yourself news then you better be news. If you are participating in satire then how reasonable is it to expect accuracy?
As for Young, I generally like his music, so the point wasn’t to dismiss him as an artist but to simply point out that the population likely to enjoy his art and the population that ultimately uses Spotify’s services may not be one in the same. Of course, the reaction might contradict that point.
20Jane & PKM @18, What a project that re-recording job must have been. I’ve started it couple times but got bogged down. VHSs too. To CD, DVD, Blu-ray.
What kind of equipment and software did you use to handle the recording project?
I just cobbled together stuff, is there one good integrated system [that doesn’t cost a fortune]?
I’ve tried Audacity and others, with a variety of equipment, but it’s never easy.
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