…and Death is NOT an Option?
van59 asks a scary question:
IMO, Cruz is far more dangerous as a Machiavellian machine – basically, amoral regarding methodology – to achieve his goal of top power. While Trump says outlandish things, being the money independent carnie he is, is he really more dangerous than Cruz as Prez?
Primo answers:
Each of them would be a disaster for this country, but for different reasons. Think of the Republican Party as a kind of Scream Team of evil mad scientists. Cruz is one of the evilest and maddest of them all, but he still fits a recognizable political pattern that everyone can pigeonhole. There is a logic to him, based on flawed premises, to be sure, but in the parlance of the old Dungeons & Dragons character alignments, Cruz would be lawful, evil.
Trump is the experiment that has escaped the lab at ScreamTeam, Inc. Corporate Person HQ. With his only motivation being The Admiration of All, Trump MAY or MAY NOT act in a way we would deem beneficial to mankind. And you never know what particular action Trump may choose to think is beneficial to himself, and whether or not he’s lying when he says so. Trump is chaotic, evil.
Put another way, the Republicans have been peering into the “Whites Only” men’s room mirror at Nietzsche’s Abyss & Bait Shop since Lee Atwater, and Trump is what finally leered back.
Recognizing that we on the Left want neither, and that we intend to defeat either, this becomes more of an existential question for the Republicans. They fear a Cruz nomination because it will fail; they fear a Trump nomination because it will fail spectacularly and rip apart the Party. Or, it might succeed – which the last few principled Republicans fear most – and rip apart the Party.
However, we Dems & Friends intend to SOUNDLY defeat Cruz because, with a GOP Congress, he can deliberately work unimaginable evil that would take us another 20 years to claw back from – especially in the Supreme Court – for every issue of consequence to Americans and other human persons.
And we Dems & Friends intend to SOUNDLY defeat Trump because the same nightmare could occur, through error and neglect: he could sign every bill the GOP sends him, while stumbling around the levers of military power and maybe provoking some sort of WMD standoff, but certainly provoking our diplomatic corps overseas to seek political asylum.
So, pick your poison: Frankenstein? Or Frankenstein’s Drumpf?
Then think about this, and try to sleep: what if Trump actually has a plan?
No! I will NOT think about that. I need my beauty sleep. I mean…you’ve seen my profile picture, right?
1An experiment that escaped from the lab! Brilliant!
2One of the greatest risks is that after the R’s self implode many of the “reasonable” republicans ( mythical creatures like fairies, or unicorns) will change to D’s out of disgust.
3They will not change their belief system flawed and inhumane as it is, they will not change their economic perspective, grab what you can and s@@@@ the hindmost, or anything but they will claim to be D’s.
Since many of these mythical beings are considered by many to be VSP’s ( very serious people) the D leaders such as schumer and wasserman schultz will feel comfortable with turning over the keys to the D party in exchange for access to their checkbooks.
This happened after nixon was flushed and again when reactionaries discovered they had relatives who either needed an abortion or were gay during addled ronnies reign of ineptitude and switched for the social benefits.
In both cases they pulledn the d’s down the path that led to them being r lites what with the dlc giving us deregulation, welfare whippings ( reform), mass incarnation and absurd trade deals to enrich their corporate overlords.
Now when it seems that there is a moment where progressives can reclaim the Democratic party and push for a progressive agenda it is time to stand firm against these cowards who were to afraid to fight for the r’s but want to purchase the D’s after they ruined the r’s.
If they join they go to the back of the line and start by licking envelops and waving signs. They are given no institutional role and their votes on any party issues, caucauses, primaries etc are discounted to 3/5ths.
They get no support in running for office and no speaking slots.
The D’s should not condone or reward cowardice and incompetence by allowing these vsp’s to do to the Democratic party what they did to the r’s.
van59, did you really have to add the last question? Seriously?
On the other hand, I am completely in sync with your summaries of the type of Evil each represents.
4“Lawful evil or chaotic evil”. This is no choice at all. It is doom.
Drumpf’s plan so far is white supremacy, massive deportation and Big Business Rule. He already acts like an emperor, so not much change there.
Cruz would be vengeful, suppress the rights of women and minorities. The elderly could kiss their Social Security and Medicare goodbye and the poor would become even more destitute. In both instances the economy would collapse.
5Out of curiosity,wasn’t Adolf Hitler’s given name-Snacilbuper?
6What a choice for the Republicans. I somehow think that they will find a way to avoid either Trump or Cruz as their nominee as they hate both of them.
More and more I get the feeling that Trump is working on his doctorate in political science and his campaign is simply gathering data on what you can do and say and still get rubes to vote for you and this data will be used in his dissertation. And, if he gets elected ( can he really afford the pay cut?) we will have to call him Dr. Trump.
7In answer to your question, yes, Herr Drumpf does indeed have a plan. He began hatching it all those years ago, as he read Hitler’s speeches for his light bedtime reading. He figured out how Hitler did what he did, and figured he could do the same. So far, he’s following the strategy brilliantly.
And it will lead to a fundamental change in the U.S. political system; likely the destruction of the Republican Party and the shift of the Democratic Party dramatically to the right (see below).
This situation is not without precedent; it happened once before in the U.S., when the Whig party fell off the right-hand end of the political spectrum in the 1850s and drowned and dissolved away in the acid fever swamps of Angrywhitemenistan.
Then, the Democrats moved to the right to fill that empty space, and the new Republican party was created to fill the now empty space on the left that was created when the Dems moved to the right. It’s been the Dems and the GOP ever since (they exchanged left-right roles, beginning during Reconstruction and ending in the Nixon era).
The United States will always have a two party system as long as the constitutional environment is not radically changed. So my prediction is that if the Republicans fall off the right hand end, the Democrats will move to the right and fill in that space (they’re already well to the right of where the Republicans were only a half century ago), and a new party will evolve to fill the space that the Dems have been vacating on the left. My prediction is that it would likely be the Greens, if they can only get their act together and take advantage of the opportunity.
This whole situation is proof of Bidstrup’s First Law of Politics: Like water always flows downhill, political entities always move incrementally to the right – because that’s where concentrations of money are. That creates spaces on the left. And that’s why successful new political parties almost always appear first on the left.
Enough people are disenchanted with another Clinton that is even more conservative than the last one, that if the disenchantment is great enough, they could, if they departed, would make a third party viable. Their place in the Democratic party will be filled by the moderates of the Republican party, escaping the wreckage of the Republican Party as it sinks slowly into the scummy water of the Angrywhitemenistan fever swamps. Because of this, there could be enough Democrats leaving the party to make a Green party into a viable political party that can actually elect candidates.
And I can only hope that’s what would happen. If it doesn’t, a dangerous and unstable authoritarian autocracy, based on a one-party state would likely develop in the U.S. That’s in no one’s interests.
8I may never sleep again.
9@epo
Schicklgruber v snacilbupeR. Close. But no cigar.
10@ken
@Scott Bidstrup
To this extent I agree that political parties are never static. There are no American Whigs or Democratic-Republicans by name today. That said two parties is just about the minima and the maxima of American politics. Conservatives and not conservatives. The ultras in either camp are too small in voting strength to elect a candidate without help from the 80% in the middle. If public opinion has shifted further and further right, and I can’t argue that it hasn’t, then the only place a new party can or will grow is from the left. That is to say there is no interest in a new party on the right.
11Thanks, Primo, for your take on these 2 repubs. Also, Debbo, someone has to ask these kind of questions. It’s a kinda Sgt Joe Friday thingy, “Just the facts, Ma’am”. Whether we like the fact or not is totally irrelevant if any decisions are to be made involving that fact.
12The feeling I get from this is that both are equally evil in different ways.
If so, why is trump getting all the attention and not cruz esp. from the so-called thinkers vs knuckle-draggers?
And I’m still of the opinion that cruz is more dangerous than trump as I mentioned earlier and because he is more intelligent than trump. And trump will try to do more deals as opposed to an ideologue. There is no dialogue with an ideologue.
Oh Primo, you debil… “… when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.” And Orwell replied, “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
13So the disgusted genuine R’s would declare themselves D’s? OK. Right now we have blue dogs and even yellow dogs. What particular hue would these transplanted R’s become? This is not just a bitchy question early in the AM. I am seriously trying to envision who the “new” D’s would care to be seen with, publicly or not in a party that is so inclusive – see cover photo of Time magazine, Democratic convention attendees. What they would most likely become is a Rump party, a development noticeable in politics across the pond. They do a lot of coalition building in order to achieve anything. Coalition maneuvering may turn out to be harder work than simple obstruction. Closer to home, Canada has had experience along these lines,but their parliamentary system was usually blamed for it. Primo et al, your thinking on this is appreciated.
14Thank you for saying what I have been thinking for the past six months. One is evil the other is a thug.
15Self righteous thuggery is the worst. I grew up in the kind of evangelical space that was so horribly condemning that I finally left it, but my best friends space was worst. In all the years of dealing with her parents disapproval of me–I cannot remember a single prayer or helping idea from them–just castigation and emotional brutality.
16This will be the new America–helpless children blamed for the “sins” of the parents, poverty seen as “justness” for moral failures, and worst of all suffering seen as character building.
Nightmares of the first order.
maggie, as an example of a ‘moderate’ nacilbupeR posing as a Dem, I give you exhibit A, Jim Webb. That didn’t work out so well for Jim, because the current mood of the Democratic base is tired of Blue Dogs like Max Baucus and Debbie WTF Schultz.
If any candidate is having post early primary regrets, think about Jim Webb and where he might be today had he run as a nacilbupeR.
Jim Webb, “kill, I loved killing!” Complete with that eerie smile, he’d have serious appeal to the snacilbupeR base. So, the PTB pick Mittens Milquetoast $Rmoney to topple Drumpf. Say what one might about Jim, but he could topple Drumpf and Crooze with plenty of blood lust left over to beat the war drums on ISIL, Syria, etc. and satisfy the snacilbupeR base I meant to say some nice things about Jim, but saying that he’s the ideal nacibupeR candidate; I don’t know, but that doesn’t seem very nice.
17pkm, Webb is considered a local guy where I live. Yes, he wore his son’s combat boots (the extra pair) while son was serving in harm’s way. He also wrote some books that blew the socks off the R readers. Basically, they considered his books and him to be perverted to the max. That certainly would have popped up on the campaign trail.
18maggie: “He also wrote some books that blew the socks off the R readers.” Uh huh, “readers” and not the snacilbupeR base to which Drumpf appeals; or as Donnie calls them “poorly educated.” Jim Webb could steal that base from Drumpf and add to it the war hawk contingent with enough feathers for the MIC ‘establishment types to form a coalition of sorts. But, too late now and I certainly have no regrets that Jim Webb didn’t play on a field where he stood a chance of winning.
As for the Drumpf vs Loathsome Ted choices of just shoot yourself or take poison, we can only hope the snacilbupeR choose one of the two. And, I don’t mean Drumpf or Crooze.
19Apologies Primo and all. My comment #17 is an example of my non-existent keyboarding skills. The last two sentences ramble without the missing punctuation, a period. Last two sentences should have read: Say what one might about Jim, but he could topple Drumpf and Crooze with plenty of blood lust left over to beat the war drums on ISIL, Syria, etc. and satisfy the snacilbupeR base. I meant to say some nice things about Jim, but saying that he’s the ideal nacibupeR candidate; I don’t know, but that doesn’t seem very nice.
20“What particular hue would these transplanted R’s become?”
Maggie, it would be what we on the farm called ‘calf sh*t yellow.’ That’s when calves had scours. I think that’s probably vivid enough.
21The Plan may consist of a relaunch of Trump TV, featuring ‘Celebrity Apprentice-D.C. Edition’, premiering in January. First to be fired: Ryan or Mitch? You decide! Vote now at 1-999-***-****. Ask for Megyn. Service charge only $9.99/min. Other restrictions apply. Vote early & often! We await your mandatory call…
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