You Say You Want a Revolution? Not so much.
Bernie Sanders burst on the scene talking about a revolution. But for any of Bernie’s ideas to see daylight, much less work, an actual revolution was needed, where the voting populace rose up in a body and swept away the Ancien Régime – starting with the centrist, third-way, DLC, blue dogs in the Democratic Party – en route to crushing the GOP and taking back the House and the Senate, so that President Sanders could lead a liberal Congress to sweeping reforms unprecedented since the early FDR years.
Unfortunately, most people viewed this as more of a metaphorical revolution, where the conversation got moved far to the left in anticipation of winning just for showing up against a fragmented Republican Party. In fact, the true revolution has already happened: Antonin Scalia died with a Democrat in office. In order to lock the revolution in place, all we need do is elect any Democratic President, then a whole plethora of evil can be undone: SCOTUS decisions, like Citizen’s United and Buckley v Vallejo, Heller, Michigan v EPA, and a host of unconstitutional states’ laws – basically, the entire ALEC playbook, plus bathrooms – can be shoved back into the festering pit of sewerage whence they came.
What this leaves is Bernie Sanders at the head of a Revolution of One because, while he correctly read the mood of discontent with the choices, he ended up not being that choice, so much. What’s more,this outcome was predicted last fall, by the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI), “…a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization dedicated to research at the intersection of religion, values, and public life.”
Last November, PRRI released their 2015 American Values Survey aptly named “Anxiety, Nostalgia and Mistrust.” In it, they asked specifically about the appetite for continuing the Bush and/or Clinton “dynasties.” Here is their summary of those results (emphasis added):
More than six in ten (61%) Republicans—including 64% of likely Republican primary voters—and nearly seven in ten (69%) Tea Party members say that electing another Bush or Clinton would be bad for the country, compared to 42% of Democrats overall and 39% of likely Democratic primary voters.
Further on in the summary, they characterize the state of the Democratic race, saying Hillary Clinton was supported by 55% of Democratic respondents, while Sanders and Biden (who dropped after the survey was conducted but before the survey was published) total about 40%.
To date, the popular vote percentages in the primary race: Clinton 56, Sanders 42
To date, the pledged delegate percentages in the primary race: Clinton 55, Sanders 45
Latest national poll released May 5, Clinton v Sanders: Clinton 54, Sanders 42
What this tells us is that, since Sept-Oct of last year (the period of the survey), the pro-Clinton / anti-Clinton numbers have not changed. Thus we can characterize the “Revolution” as more of a protest, whether against Hillary qua Hillary, or as an avatar for more-of-the-sameism. While conceding that Bernie Sanders qua Bernie Sanders has done very well, Bernie Sanders as the Clinton alternative had a national hard ceiling he never broke through.
I encourage you all to read the survey, it’s a compelling snapshot of voter attitudes, with much that is cautionary, but MUCH to build on, during the second half of the Clinton “dynasty.”
I don’t like HRC and I don’t want to have to vote for HRC, but,people talk about HRC’s character and claim she is scandal prone and that is baloney. Her problem is wingnuts and their incessant desire to prove she has done something-anything wrong and they are more than willing to execute her for jay-walking. None of the scandals when Bill was Potus had any merit and the Clinton’s were cleared over and over again.
HRC’s big problem is unlikeability. She refuses to kiss wingnut’s A$$E$ and that makes them more determined to investigate her. Someine tell me one thing she has been charged with and convicted of? It hasn’t happened and with bumbling bumbler wingnuts in charge of investigating her, it never will.
1~Primo, too soon. Not in the too soon to discuss gun control category of too soon. Those words and numbers are more in the not enough coffee yet type of too soon. Time is needed to say goodbye to Loathsome Crooze and Ksuchasheis, too, before I move on to Hillary. We men are not good with good byes, so will leave it to Samantha Bee to dispatch those two.
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/05/samantha-bee-bids-farewell-ted-cruz
Also, time is needed to give Uncle Bernie a good-bye hug, before standing still for that big sloppy kiss we know is coming from Auntie Hilz.
Although, Auntie Hilz has rewritten her will so that she is looking more attractive. I almost didn’t recognize her. She’s kicking TPP to the curb and writing me in.
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/05/clinton-commits-no-tpp-fundamentally
Now about that “Revolution,” maybe that was what all the groupies were singing about, I dunno. Oddly enough I found myself among the quiet group, those of us who had hoped for that hopey changey thing 8 years earlier. We weren’t thinking Revolution, but maybe if promised a Revolution a little of that hope and change might happen this time.
Will do your reading assignment after more coffee, Primo. Hope it doesn’t require a stiff drink, because it’s a little early in the morning for that here.
2Another Internet article about how Bernie is a foolish loser who will never be able to get anything good done for the country and Clinton is winning. Pathetic that the Democratic party is now the party of “We’re not as crazy as THOSE guys” instead of the party of liberal ideas that will actually help people overcome our crooked big-money-captured political system.
3Your lamest yet, Primo.
Perhaps you could start shaming a few Berners by describing how a vote for Jill Stein in Texas (or in California, or roughly 40 other non-swing states) helps elect Trump. Work in a mention of the Supreme Court, and don’t forget to blame Ralph Nader for the Iraq War and 9/11 for the full mythological scary effect.
4Clinton is taking flak because she isn’t “revolutionary” enough, but the people who support a revolution don’t have a clue of the upheaval in everyone’s lives that would be. The end result is a nice goal, but we would be doing exceptionally well just by taking small steps at a time. In reality, going forward at any speed after 8 years of paralyzed Congress would seem revolutionary.
5We still need a Democratic Senate to confirm a Supreme Court justice.
6HRC will get the blame for the paralyzed congress because they just had to spend so much time and money investigating her because,like Bill, she refused to admit and quit.
7Bernie has good motives but his math doesn’t add up. WashPost editorial today points out analysis that Bernie’s agenda would mean a deficit of $18 trillion in ten years. But that’s assuming he could get his plans through Congress, which is a long shot even with a Dem tilt after 2016.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/sanderss-plans-arent-just-too-good-to-be-true-theyre-also-fiscally-dangerous/2016/05/09/c0ea258c-160e-11e6-9e16-2e5a123aac62_story.html
Hillary Clinton wouldn’t be my first choice from an open field, but she’s what we’ve got, and she’s lightyears ahead of that other alternative.
PKM, thanks for the Samantha Bee clip.
McCain on tape: “If Donald Trump is at the top of the ticket, here in Arizona, I have no doubt that this may be the race of my life.”
SB: “Oh my! Your Senate seat is threatened by a crude, anti-intellectual, anger-stoking nativist?” (photo next to McCain’s switches from Trump to Palin) “Ain’t karma a bitch.”
8OK. A Summary of 58 pages. And, an indictment of where polls and surveys go wrong, when they trip out of the gate with a built-in feature.
“The Bush/Clinton Dynasty Dilemma
Although Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton each entered the 2016 campaign with considerable assets,
their famous last names may not be among them.”
That’s some top level swill there right out of the gate. Dubya was a moron that screwed the world, particularly the Middle East. Big Dawg received a consensual BJ. Hilz is highly intelligent. Jebya demonstrated himself to be at least as big a moron as his brother, if not a bigger moron than Dubya. $millions couldn’t save Jeb’s campaign; Hilz’ campaign is alive and well.
Otherwise, the answers and numbers collected were unrealistic. If anything, the responses reflected the “out of touch” thinking that, if anything, might account for the rise of Herr Drumpf. Things are much worse than the respondents indicated, but Donnie Drumpf isn’t the answer.
Bernie or Hilz need to do some rethinking along a more Progressive path, while the rest of us need to replace most of Congress with Democrats of the old FDR style, at a minimum.
9I don’t like the way Bernie has progressed during this campaign. Loyal opposition has much to commend it but he seems to have left the discourse behind and replaced it with discord. I don’t have Primo’s gift of words to express my concerns, except to say I don’t like him at all. The actions of some Bernie supporters in LA last week should have been condemned, but he just skirted the issue. Perhaps his ideas are good, but I don’t think he’s the one to lead us to them.
10Primo –
misssymcconnell will never let the filibuster lay fallow as long as he’s as stupid as a cow pie. We must have a filibuster-proof Senate and a 5 vote majority in the House to undo all the damage that’s been done.
11Let’ s just note for the Hillarians here that duplicitous conservative asshat PJ O’Rourke got it right.
“I am endorsing Hillary… and all her lies and all her empty promises… I’m endorsing Hillary… the second worst thing that could happen to this country, but it’s… she’s way behind in second place… you know, I mean she’s wrong about absolutely everything, but she’s wrong within normal parameters.”
There’s your rationale; you know, a variation of ‘we’re not perfect but THEY’re nuts’. Run with that.
12Perhaps I’m stump dumb and unimaginative, but Primo’s stats pretty much parallel my less than scientific observation. Bernie supports a protest against what is. Not Dems specifically but DC politics as usual. Bernie is about as far from politics as usual a Dem can get and still be a Dem. But as a protest Bernie never had a chance of really being the nominee.
But dont read anything into that about me. I will support whoever the Dem nominee winds up being because doing so breathes a bit of life into our republic. A nacilbupeR potus at this point in history might destroy what I, we have worked for all our lives. So it doesnt matter to me HRC or Bernie or …
13Any Dem is better than Hair Drumpf or any of the other members of the former clown car.
Micr, if you’re “stump dumb and unimaginative,” good brother, we’re in for another night of drinking with the penguins.
Unfortunately, statistics are all we have. Upon casual glance the numbers look fairly innocuous and pretty much reflect our experience. However, two sections in particular struck me as maybe being in the “under reported” column. Wages and incarceration/justice issues. Most of us are not minimum wage workers. In fact we probably would consider $10/hr or even $15/hour impossible poverty on which to raise a family. Yet, no one ever asks the question: would $20/hr be closer? As for justice/incarceration, again, I speak from the shadows of white privilege. But. I “hear” from #BlackLivesMatter and have indication that this is far worse than media reports and statistics would have us believe.
JanK, speaking of the media, and most recently the reports from CA and the mystery “BernieBros.” I think the media has been had, and thus we have been had to a degree. Did you see the one particularly slovenly fellow who sure looked more like a Drumpf supporter? While there are Bernie supporters who protest Clinton events, the disruption has all the appearances of unwanted ‘help.’ Whoever those people are, I sincerely hope LE uses the facial recognition feature and other techniques to identify them. As for the clod who stole a poster from a little girl and ripped up her poster; there needs to be a special place for those who think making children cry is ever a good idea.
14PDiddie, let’s talk. I share your concerns and appreciate the PJ O’Rourke reference. But the “Your lamest yet, Primo” isn’t a wide conversation opener. Where would you like to begin?
15Pancho, that’s a little unfair. I don’t think Bernie is foolish, nor do I think he’s a “loser” in any other sense of the word than “not the winner in this race.” Certainly not in the pejorative sense.
Bernie was not the change agent. Bernie is like Moses, who had the vision, got the Israelites going, and never made it to the Promised Land himself. TODAY, we are looking for a Joshua, the great general who DELIVERED on the promise. But a general is only as good as his or her army. Is Hillary that general? No, because the Democrats are not yet that army. But she can lay the ground, and build the army.
That’s all these numbers are saying. All I’ve EVER said about this race is to characterize it as “Bernie has been behind, and needs to do X to catch up, and unless something drastic happens, that is not likely.”
Something drastic needed to happen, and nothing drastic did. Does that mean that Bernie is wrong? No, it just means Bernie was early.
16_______________ <— so I don't have to outrun Mama. I spoke too soon about Crooze. He's talking about taking his campaign out of suspended animation after Nebraska. He's talking with Beck, so this crazy talk may be just crazy talk, which gives it credence as being a Crooze plan.
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/05/ted-cruz-could-reinstate-campaign-after
17While I will vote for HRC if she is the nominee, her incrementalism does not strike me as what is needed. There are times when incrementalism works and there are times when something more drastic is needed. My impression is that we are in a time where the more drastic action is needed.
Metaphorically, we face a 20 foot chasm that we must leap over… and you can’t leap a 20 foot chasm with two 10 foot leaps.
18Bernie supporter here who was also hoping for the change I worked so hard for in 2008. (The incremental improvements were good, but not what I call “change”)
I agree with numbers. I can have my own opinions but I don’t get my own facts. Once the delegate count reached insurmountable odds I believe as voters and a party we should move on to the next phase of winning the election, which means Hillary. Like it or not.
My only disagreement with your analysis is that the opinion/facts thing cuts both ways.
“But for any of Bernie’s ideas to see daylight, much less work”
19This has been a constant refrain. I understand the resistance his ideas would meet in his theoretical Presidency. But that is anyone’s Presidency. And that opinion is voiced without the caveat that to the Republicans, HRC is the most demonized and reviled Democrat alive. If she proposes a bill to call the time of day when the sun comes up “morning” it will meet more resistance than the Affordable Care Act. To marginalize Bernie by saying he won’t have the support of Congress without admitting that Hillary’s ideas will be rejected out-of-hand is worse than disingenuous.
Bill Maher talks about the right wingers living in a bubble. I think that bubble may have burst with the Trump nomination. Republicans had a chance to pick a “true conservative” and didn’t. The far left needs to come out of their bubble too. “If only we had a candidate who was pure and authentic” they said (except on guns and a few other issues they ignore), Bernie is the closest candidate to that Noam Chomsky ideal and he hasn’t won either. Seems the majority really want someone more left of center. How can you listen to the ravings of the far right that Hillary and Obama are commie liberals and think that she is anything other than center left. I’ve read way too many comments from the Bernies describing her as the same as any Republican. Really? I started out supporting Sanders but that changed as the campaign went on. Especially after reading his early writings in Mother Jones and elsewhere. That Bernie thought that a woman might fantasize about being raped by 3 men while her man fantasized about tying women up was “dark satire” on the roles of women stumped me. If a Republican had written that, we would’ve been all over him. Bernie running in 1980 on the Trotsky ticket that called for the disbanding of the military and so on. While Hillary was working for the Children’s Defense Fund what was Bernie actually doing? You can march and demonstrate but you also have to get down to business and actually do something to really make change. Like Dr. King meeting with LBJ along with marching in the street.
20The Republican obstruction President Obama faced was unprecedented and accounts for the incrementalism progressives decry. Hillary or Bernie will face that and more, so without a complete rout of congressional republicans in this election, Hillary’s moderate approach will attract more voters and therefore more possibility for progress.
21The premiss of Primo’s thread, as I understand it, is that the numbers are real and not some emotional hash tag. How real, then, are these numbers if the basis has been skewed? Is there any truth to the dnc, dem elites and most media beside the un-loyal opposition, tilting the pin ball machines; ie, in effect gerrymandering the primaries for a more predictable insider outcome?
22After all these years of incremental change?, will more creep along bring any real change if the same power players in both parties are left in power?
Is this sorta like being half-pregnant? Perhaps grabbing our security blankets will help.
The one thing setting Clinton apart from all the other candy-dates is promises.
23Clinton knows better than anyone else that the republi-can’ts will stand in the ‘schoolhouse [read statehouse] door to obstruct progress. She’s made NO promise, other than best effort. The spin from Bernie-bots and lies from republi-can’ts is not enough to convince a pauper that she’s a pooper.
I may not be a Clinton supporter, but … the spin and lies from her opponents is motivation enough for me to vote for her in November.
I don’t think that Bernie would face more opposition than Hillary because he’s Bernie. I think he would face more opposition because his goals are more radical. That’s why I think that, as president, Bernie would be less likely to accomplish what he wants.
I’m probably most accurately described as a democratic socialist myself, but I’m comfortable not getting all the way home in 4 years.
I really think it’s past time for Bernie to gracefully retire from the race and go to work electing as many Democrats as possible, electing Hillary and pushing the Democratic platform to the left.
I’ve been disappointed in Bernie since he was clearly out of it, but hasn’t left. I know that’s cost him favorability with some others too. (Anecdotal.) If he dropped out now and took the actions I’ve described, he’d had every ounce of my respect back.
24