Why I’m a Catholic Agnostic
By Da Chipster
My agnosticism is well-documented here, but I’m still a homer for the religion I grew up in, and this Pope gives me hope for Catholicism.
Pope Frank just weiged in – indirectly – on Ferguson, and the poor schmuck in my state who got executed for carrying a toy WalMart gun in WalMart, and Georgie Zimmerman and “stand your ground” and every good-guy-with-a-gun meme:
“‘the death penalty, illegally and to a varying extent, is applied all over the planet,’ because ‘extrajudicial executions’ are often disguised as ‘clashes with offenders or presented as the undesired consequences of the reasonable, necessary and proportionate use of force to apply the law.'”
Not to mention, he took this whack at the so-called “extraordinary rendition” of Kim Jong Bush II and his Reign of Error:
“He also rebuked unspecified governments involved in kidnapping people for ‘illegal transportation to detention centers in which torture is practiced.'”
Finally, he nailed today’s GOP and its TeaBirchers:
“The pope spoke scathingly about the mentality of the typical corrupt person, whom he described as conceited, unable to accept criticism, and prompt to insult and even persecute those who disagree with him.
“‘The corrupt one does not perceive his own corruption. It is a little like what happens with bad breath: someone who has it hardly ever realizes it; other people notice and have to tell him,’ the pope said. ‘Corruption is an evil greater than sin. More than forgiveness, this evil needs to be cured.'”
Holy Halitosis!
Indeed. As I too have said here before, I decided to remain in the fold that includes so many persons of “corruption” because I didn’t want such people to be the only face of the greater body of the Catholic Church.
1Where’s the damned “LIKE” button? Excellent piece DaChip … I am not Catholic, never have been, never will be … but by golly I like this Pope so much!!
2It is mighty refreshing to see a religious leader that actually agrees with the founder of the religion. There are not a lot of those out there.
3I’m in the same, exact, boat as da Chipster. And, I completely agree with him. While there is nothing this Pope can say that will prompt me to return to the church, I still appreciate what he’s doing.
BTW: I went to a Catholic funeral Mass for a gay friend last week. He had been a very prominent gay personality here in DC and left a partner of 15 years. He wanted the Mass in the church he had grown up in in suburgan Maryland. Absolutely NO mention was made of his “life style;” but, I told my Bubba that I had just seen more gay men receive communion since we went to Midnight Mass at the Vatican in 1990. 🙂
4I’m an ex-Catholic and I have been amazed with this Pope and hope he has a long and influential reign. I really wish he would clean up his own house though because it seems to me there are some mean & evil archbishops and priests (at least in the U.S.) who continue to harm society with their opinions and influence. And when I’m feeling extra negative I’m afraid they will find a way to harm this Pope because he really is more what a christian should be where they are not at all and would prefer the status quo of of at least the previous Pope.
5I pause to listen when de Poppa speaks because my family includes a herd of Catholics by marriage, including my youngest son’s little bride. So far I think Pope Francis has used his bully pulpit effectively and hope he does so for a good number of years in the future. To repeat Ralph Wiggam’s line it is refreshing, and a bit different to hear a religious leader agreeing with founder.
Well done Chipster!
6I’m a never-been Catholic and pray for the Pope’s safety and continued courage in speaking out against evil. There are actually lots of Christian folks who still have good sense in the world; they just have given up on trying to implement change via the ballot, which is a shame.
7I’ve struggled with Catholicism my whole life. By the time I was 15, I decided organized religion was a scam to get people to donate money & behave a certain way.
However, because it was burned into my entire being for so long, I couldn’t stay away from Mass. I still wanted to be there occasionally. Over the years, I’ve returned & left the Church several times. I eventually decided I was an Agnostic Catholic or Catholic Agnostic and am at peace.
Nice to meet you, da Chipster. I’ve never been sure if there were more like me out there.
Pope Frank soothes my soul by practicing what he preaches. I’m glad I lived to see him.
8Not Catholic and never been. I’m pleasantly surprised by some of the things he’s saying and doing, but he’s still speaking from a reactionary institution, and he hasn’t moved an inch on birth control or the non-existence of women in the church hierarchy. And I don’t know how much he can change, given that the Vatican monolith announced a “didn’t really mean it” on his remark that gays were welcome. (And what’s with that– isn’t the Pope in charge, or what?)
9This pope is as big a fraud as all the others.
10He is NOT accepting of gays, he says gays can be saved if they repent and stop doing it or stop practicing gayness.
He has not turned over one kid-diddling priest yet.
He really believes in gawd? Ha, stop using the pope-mobile if you think gawd is so great.
He says for people to stop being so violent! Translation…Since we are not allowed to kill at our whim anymore, we would like you to stop doing it too.
Besides what the pope says is not necessarily what the church does!
L. Long, Pope Francis rarely uses the Pope-mobile. He drives (personally) a 1984 Renault. I think he paid for it personally. Then he turned around and told priests they should drive humble cars.
This guy practices what he preaches. He doesn’t live in the Palace, but in a guest house and eats in the cafeteria. He believes in reaching out to the poor. He’s reaching out to those the church has chased away by intolerance.
I’m not Catholic, though I am a devout Christian. I think Pope Francis is a breath of fresh air. I hope he lives long and that air cleans out the stuffy corners of his denomination to make it more open.
11LLong! Dude! In the end, the Pope is still Catholic, and change in the Church comes slowly, but it does come. Not defending, but explaining. As for his faith in the face of danger? Peruse this from earlier this summer.
(CNN) — Pope Francis has told a Spanish newspaper that he prefers not to use a bulletproof Popemobile despite the dangers of an assassination attempt because it is a glass “sardine can” that walls him off from people.
“It’s true that anything could happen, but let’s face it, at my age I don’t have much to lose,” he told Barcelona newspaper La Vanguardia in an interview published Friday and reported on in English by Vatican Radio.
“I know that something could happen to me, but it’s in the hands of God.”
12He tends to be OK with me about 90% of the time. There are still some items that we disagree on. The big worry for me and others is that the Curia (the group of Cardinals) could do him harm in some way. And I am not kidding.
13Although I still attend Mass, I do not take communion due to their stance on contraception. I do not believe it is dogma and feel it is rooted in the tradition of treating women as subservient. The hypocrisy of preaching one thing and practicing another has also been a long tradition which I think Pope Francis is trying to change, but I don’t have a lot of hope that it will. Recent events have confirmed it.
14Maryelle, you are partly right, in that the whole concept, OT-wise – as well as the concept of adultery and of marriage in general – is rooted in the “necessity” of raising sons in the male line, in a patriarchal society. That extended even to fathering kids in the name of dead older brothers, which is where Onan made his big mistake and ruined it for the rest of us, men and women alike.
My whole take on THAT mess can be found here:
https://juanitajean.com/2013/01/29/barefoot-pregnant-and-rick-perry/comment-page-1/#comment-46306
Really, from the “dogma” PoV, it’s that same old meme of sex being ONLY permissible within marriage, mainly for procreation, which technically rules out everything a man could find enjoyable outside of unprotected male-female coitus. So it’s not anti-girl, per se. Just every sperm is sacred.
So, if you believe in the Sacrament, you don’t need to cut yourself off from that avenue of obtaining Grace.
Unless, of course, you’re not doing it dogma-style. 😉
15Split with my religion over the death penalty issue, and some other concerns. None of the learned scholars could explain to me why a secular Judea-Christian society would countenance such barbarism. Not an easy choice for a young Jewish boy at the cusp of becoming a man about to enjoy the Bar Mitzvah & Bat Torah. Blew off a great party and tons of cash & gifts, but have never regretted my decision.
The road ahead for Pope Francis in dealing with the entrenched hierarchy of the Church is not dissimilar with what President Obama has endured with entrenched government bureaucracy. Looking in from the outside, thinking too many Cardinals and Bishops went to school with Republicans.
Perhaps President Obama and Pope Francis can meet at Camp David for a relaxing weekend, a round of golf, maybe some hoops and a beer or two. They deserve it.
16Works for me, Marxist. Doesn’t work for the Klan and their ilk but that type is never, ever going to say anything good about the Pope OR President Obama. And with President Obama, it’s not just that he’s a Democrat. A lot of it is because he’s black. I don’t know what the rednecks in Stinkadena say about him but I can damned well guess!
17Arriba, the day President Obama was elected, the GOP vowed to make him a one term president. When he won a second term, they upped their Blah Blocking game. He has tried giving them some of the things they want, only to have them reject their own plans. It’s cracker crazy. President Obama has one thing in common with former President Carter; both being too nice to the GOP obstructionists.
The KKK is best known for lynching black folks, but their bigotry toward people of the Catholic and Jewish faiths is another ugly blight on the slave holding ancestors. Add to their list hatred of women, children, gays and Hispanics. Guess that ‘revision’ of hate is their entrance into the 2st century, as they cling to the Stone Age.
Can anyone really distinguish between Jihadism and Dominionism? Only difference I can see is that a jihadi will put their own blood and skin in the fight, while Dominionists like Dubya send other people’s’ kids to fight the Koch wars.
18OK guys I was wrong on the pope-mobile! My bad….and the rest??? Exactly! When has the RCC ever changed anything of importance??? Sure we wont go to hell for eating meat on fridays….big deal!!!
19They no longer kill as they wish because they have been slapped down by gov’mints and enforced laws not because they thought they were wrong. And the kid-diddlyng? How many priests are at the least charged and on trial??
Yes what the pope SAYS may let him look nice, but so what! It is what the RCC pushes and does that counts.
I’ve never been Catholic, and I do like this Pope Francis. He’s so much better than his predecessors. I think Ratzinger belongs in a prison cell, and that will never happen.
20