What do we deserve?
I was reminded of a time during my childhood when a family of strangers rang our doorbell. They came in beaten and bloody and told my parents that they had an accident and didn’t have any money. I may have been nine or ten at the time. It’s hard to remember precisely when this happened. I just remember my parents giving them a little bit of money and a black and white television we didn’t use anymore. I think my sister and I gave the children some toys we didn’t play with. At the end of the day it didn’t amount to very much.
Jt didn’t occur to me until much later that no one bothered to verify their story. They could have easily gone door to door using the same act and raked in numerous toys, used televisions, and small amounts of cash that add up to large amounts of cash. We certainly didn’t discuss it as a family. We just gave a little of what we had and didn’t need.
The question of whether they deserved the help didn’t come up, but it certainly comes up today. When confronted with our politics it seems I have fluctuated between the nine and ten year old me and the attitudes of young adult version of me that questioned those we gave to. There are many instances where I just can’t identify with conservative ideology. Sadly, this is one where I definitely can relate because I used to think the same way.
The breakdown occurs when we ask the question of whether someone deserves assistance. It’s an innocent enough question at the outset. No one wants to be taken for a ride. No one wants to give up their hard earned money to someone capable of surviving on their own. No one wants to comfort the comfortable. We want to know that we are helping people that really need our help. It’s simple enough and yet it leads us to a very dark place.
You can imagine the simple mention of the dreaded “Obama phones” that people supposedly got. It gets us started on a cycle that spirals out of control. Why do they get free phones? Are they nice phones? How many free minutes and how much data is free? How come I have to pay for my phone, my minutes, and my data? What did they do to deserve this?
When you hear any mention of free tuition or college loan forgiveness that is the number one response. Why do THEY deserve it? It is the same overwhelming emotion older Americans have when they return to their high school or college alma mater. Why did this get so nice? How come they are spending all this money on them? What did they do to deserve this? Why didn’t we get this stuff? Decades later, I couldn’t tell you exactly what that family in the beginning got. I certainly can’t say that we missed any of it. The better angels of our nature certainly would like to know that they turned out okay, but those darker angels might have appeared had we learned that we were just another easy mark on their way to easy luxury. Even those of us that have generous hearts give into that line of thinking on the other side. What does Exxon/Mobile do to deserve all the tax breaks they get? Why don’t billionaires pay their fair share? What did they do to deserve this?
I’m certain some don’t really need assistance and are taking advantage of the situation. It took me a long time to get to the place where someone’s free phone, free lunch, or free health care shouldn’t concern me. At the end of the day, what exactly does any of us deserve anyway?
Consider that there are many ways to keep college expenses down — jucos, CLEP, work/study programs, online courses, renting rather than buying texts, attending lower cost state universities rather than higher-priced private colleges, and so forth. (Let’s also not ignore the availability of low-cost trade and technical schools, esp. ones offered through state juco institutions.)
Very many students use those approaches. That’s probably why statistics (depending on whose you look at and what populations are considered), the average outstanding student loan amount seems to run in the 25K-30K range. That’s hardly the oppressing amount of debt that folks like Warren seem to focus on — esp. at a time of rising wages and effectively full employment.
With the above in mind, I would favor making the following changes for funding education:
1) Heavily subsidizing trade and technical schools;
2) Heavily subsidizing jucos and qualification tests (a la CLEP) which earn college credits.
For other college/university education, there would be federal loans set at the prime rate with at least two payment plan options: some type of income surtax, or a regular payment plan which begins accruing interest and demanding payments no sooner than two years after graduation. (The two years would allow a student to get into a job and get settled with the basics of life before having to begin payment.)
Participation in the above loan program should, I think, be contingent on some type of yearly exercise where students would be expected to look at their future earnings, budget, and ability to pay their loans. (I’m purposefully being foggy on this as it’d involve a number of factors, but wouldn’t this be a great opportunity for grad students in business to put their education to work!)
As always, adjustments would be made for unique situations — I’m just painting this with a broad brush.
1I didn’t mean to litigate the specific issue of college loan forgiveness or free tuition specifically. It simply was about those subset of folks that won’t consider it because of some combination of “well we didn’t have that” or “they don’t deserve it.”
Simply put, the “they don’t deserve it” corollary is a bottomless pit that leads us nowhere. It’s the same subset of folks that argue against foreign aid to Ukraine or anywhere else. Whether someone or some country “deserves it” is not the question we should be asking. Is the investment worthwhile? What are we getting out of it?
I can see the position of paying someone 100,000 to get a Philosophy or French poetry degree is not the best use of that money. I definitely can get behind focusing on technical degrees and/or trades. I can see expanding programs that subsidize students that take on government jobs or teach in depressed areas that have teacher shortages. That makes sense. However, none of that works if we give into the “do they deserve it?” argument.
2When I was growing up, public education through high school was “free”, ie. no direct tuition. Instead, property taxes covered that cost. At the time, a high school education was sufficient for a young man or woman to get a decent paying job that had prospects for future higher earnings. That time is long gone. Now the minimum is at least junior/community college or technical school, and even there the prospects of improved pay are “iffy” depending upon the major area of study.
3That being the case, I would say that public education through college sophomore-equivalent should be free, paid for by taxes. And to the question of “why does that person deserve it?” Well, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I prefer that the aircraft mechanic that just serviced the jet I’m flying out on or the nurse that is providing me with vital health care is educated enough that he or she is doing a good job while at the same time not being distracted by worries about how they were going to make their next student loan payment.
Who is deserving is not a question we can completely ignore. I have given someone money to buy pizza for their kids, while they travel to family out of state, only to have the same person rattle off the same script to me 3 months later. But I’m glad to have reached a point where I can give a few bucks to someone who looks like they need it and not fret that they might be a full time panhandler. For government programs, we shouldn’t be trying to restrict SNAP or Medicaid because some groups might not be “worthy”. I think the only reason to deny benefits is actual fraud (claiming benefits for people who don’t exist).
On the subject of student loans, I think the solution for the current situation is to cancel the interest retroactive to the beginning of the loan. If you borrowed $20,000 20 years ago, have been paying a percent of your income since then and still owe $19,000, you deserve to be done. If you are one year out of law school and owe $150,000, you need to pay back the principle.
Going forward, I’d like to see student loan interest kept below market rates, like mine were in the 70s. Elizabeth Warren’s idea to tie student loan rates the the Federal Reserve overnight bank rate is a good one.
4Good subject. Personally I try to tend toward the generous end. Eg. person on corner asking for money. Usually I will give rationalizing that they are working. Not the kind I would like to do. I do discriminate between those people and Exxon.
5In the end, what I try to keep in mind is the giving is about what I do, how I will be judged and not what that person is going to do with the money since it ain’t my job to judge them. And, yes I do fail to do this often enough.
There will ALWAYS be someone who takes advantage of any aid programs. Big Business (like EXXON or Wall St) comes to mind as the biggest welfare moochers. But that should NOT shut down the help for the ones who need it.
6When my granddaughter was very young and riding in the car with my daughter, she saw a couple of people on a street corner with a sign asking for money. She asked her mom how would she know if they would spend it on alcohol or drugs if they gave them any. My daughter’s answer to her was that how they spent it wasn’t up to her; what was up to her was whether she wanted to help them and just rely on the fact that they would use it for what they needed most.
7I think we humans are always comparing, it’s who we are. The wealth gap has grown so large and so well publicized that I think about who has what more frequently. Today in the paper they had the salaries of the top twenty CEOs in Houston – so what exactly did the CEO of Centerpoint do to earn $37mil? Seeing that, when regular folk need medical care, mental health treatment, food and housing – serious needs – and he’s got money coming out the wazoo and probably not much ending up in the public coffers.
8Obama phone! WTFs an Obama phone? And to think, I’m still using that stinking iPhone 4!
9Gonna hafta admit I must wonder about the Exxon’s of the world taking tax payouts after paying no taxes!
Guv Greg Abbutt said we –deserved– the best electric power [after his policies caused huge outages and killed a bunch of people].
So he ‘did something something’ and problem solved! WTG Greggie..
So now, a year later, ERCOT is begging people to conserve electricity or there might be some outages…
[it already 101 here, heading for 110+, humidity 42%. Had heat index of 122 yesterday, air temperature reached 109.6]
10“those subset of folks that won’t consider it because of some combination of “well we didn’t have that” or “they don’t deserve it.””
11“we” didn’t have a lot of things that “they” get, life goes on. Also there’s no denying that the price of life continues to grow for many reasons. But there’s also no denying, too, that those at the top of the ladder are too frequently unfair about keeping the spoils for themselves!
Yesterday, there was a Twitter thread on this very subject.
As happens to most threads, lots of people have stories.
https://twitter.com/KevinCate/status/1545898089130639362
12The people I know who are particularly concerned with this concept, are very offended by “welfare queens” and “lazy immigrants”, for example, who are getting benefits to which they are not entitled (in the opinion of said people). Funny they rarely express outrage about billionaire tax breaks, legacy college admissions, & so on. Wonder why that is.
13Nick, you have nicked the corner of several unanswerable questions, which I have had fun playing with, especially, “what do any of us deserve?” I am reminded of Robert Frost’s comment on the matter: “There’s no connection man can reason out Between his just deserts and what he gets. Virtue may fail and wickedness succeed.” Also the question “Why do bad things happen to good people?” A few months after my wife died I led a seminar between Sunday services on this topic. One suggestion offered was that “there are no good people”. Others suggested that “we will get our rewards when we get to Heaven”. But I think that the Robert Frost quote gets closer to the right answer. And Immanuel Kant has suggested that we should always strive to do good regardless of any hope of reward. [not that this is an easy answer]
14Thank you Jill Ann@13.
15You said it all as far as I’m concerned.
Nick a few dollars and a little assistance even if it’s a scam is minor. Maybe we need to redefine scam as multiple $millions such as the tRump cronies who took “wall dollars” for personal gain and a yacht. Or, those who took the hastily passed covid relief funds meant to help workers for in excess of millions. Major fraud, major Party foul as in GOP fraudsters.
Occasionally when we go into Carson City or Reno, we’re easy marks for the homeless, especially those with kids or a dog. Most motels will not rent to ‘locals,’ so we’ll register a room for a few nights, return with a bag of groceries, and leave a little cash for laundry, etc. In a couple of cases, we’ve taken the women and children to a shelter and given a job to the man to help him get ahead until he can provide for his family. This has been proven to be money well spent. Given just a little assistance, a chance to clean-up, and rest with the current job market many have shared their experiences and joy of landing a job
16Yep, the difference between liberal and conservative. A liberal will give 10 people a meal in case one is starving. A conservative will deny 10 people a meal in case one is full.
17That’s a great story Suzanne. Thank you for sharing. I’m full of thoughts at the moment but want to save them for another piece. Thank you to everyone for their thoughts. It really helps the creative juices to flow.
18We deserve a fair and honest Government., one we can trust. Get rid of the white supremacist, religious extremist and corporate fascist Republicans and we will have one.
We deserve a fair and honest Judicial System, Rule of Law and Police etc., one we can trust. Get rid of the white supremacist, religious extremist and corporate fascist Republicans and we will have one.
We deserve a fair and honest MSM., one we can trust. Get rid of the white supremacist, religious extremist and corporate fascist Republicans and we will have one.
We deserve a fair and honest education, job, housing, medical and food availability, affordable and available to EVERYONE etc., one we can trust. Get rid of the white supremacist, religious extremist and corporate fascist Republicans and we will have one.
You know, we deserve and need basic Liberal principles . Get rid of Bigotry and we will have them.
What we DON’T NEED but what we HAVE is the extremist white supremacist, religious extremist and corporate fascist Republicans lying stealing, blaming Liberals and fucking everything ‘good’ up.
Must read, short and to the point…!!!!!!!
“Where Did the Religious Nuttery Come From?”
19‘The televangelists became multimillionaires, churches openly defied IRS regulations and preached politics from the pulpit, and millions of mostly non-political church-goers were suddenly evangelists not just for Jesus but also for the Republican Party.’
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/7/11/2109625/-Where-Did-the-Religious-Nuttery-Come-From