Well, THAT Was Cringe
Please excuse my Gen-Z use of the word “cringe”. It fits. I wish it wasn’t true, but if wishes were gold-painted basketball hightops, then TFG would sink a trey.
We have been seeing reactions from the CNN Debate for a day and a half now. Well, half of them, anyway. The half that we watch on our phones and flat screens.
The other half we don’t see at all except by accident.
The reactions I’ve seen on my side of the aisle are of two types: open convention vs. stay the course. I’m not here to advocate for either side because in my own mind it doesn’t matter.
Many Democrats, including those I know personally, are advocating for an “open convention.” That sounds fine. We can nominate Kamala or Gavin. They can both win against a 34-times over convicted felon, right? But then you have to defend your actions to die-hard Biden voters who do, in fact, exist.
Or we can stay the course, cross our fingers, and elect the 81-year old former stutterer.
It’s a Sophie’s Choice for sure. One option ensures a Democratic schism just as we had after the 1968 Chicago convention. The other gets us an octogenarian President who knows what “having the morals of an alley cat” means, but no one younger than a Gen-Xer does.
Either way, the outcome is, to put it the way JJ puts it, el caca del toro.
But that sure as H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks beats the other ballot option, doesn’t it? I may have been wrong about TFG showing up to the debate at all (I wish I wasn’t), but I don’t think I’m wrong in thinking that The Convicted Felon didn’t win over a single new voter last Thursday.
The lies, the obfuscation, and the refusal to answer moderators’ questions were all there for us to see.
TFG can dig his own grave. He really doesn’t need anyones’ help.
And no one who isn’t a captive of The Former Guy’s demagogery is saying I really want this guy to be president again.
Now that’s the truth. I’m sticking with the plan, because the thought of a 1968 repeat makes me sick. And we have a perfectly competent VP to take over if necessary, with a full slate of younger equally competent cabinet members.There is no saving TFG’s brain dead supporters. Including my 96 year old mother, who as of this week is in a rehab/skilled nursing facility after a fall at home that fractured her scapula and 5 ribs. My 82 year old uncle, who absolutely hates 45, asked her and her home caregiver during a visit yesterday if they thought he was a liar during the debate. In unison, they proclaimed NOOOO! He said it was the loudest he’s heard her voice in ages. I guess she saves the weak voice for us when we call. Sometimes it’s good to be 3,000 miles away.
1I didn’t watch the “debate”, but I did hear it. Every time the Orange Menace spoke, he did the “no one has ever seen anything like it” bullshit and of course his outright lies. His hatred of Hispanics was on full display and yet the moderators did absolutely nothing to make him answer the questions they actually asked.
Biden was nowhere near his best, but at least he didn’t lie.
2As your favorite moderate Republican (I hope), PLEASE substitute Newsom or some equally young and competent person without the California baggage if you can find one. Joe blew it. Years ago I knew a severe stutterer. Pressure and time limits were a killer for that guy, and I think I recognized the same symptoms during the debate. I’m going to vote for whomever opposes TFG in any event, so please pick one who will pt up a good fight and win.
3In the next presidential election cycle in 1972, democrats again futzed with the ticket and again helped one Richard Nixon to decisively get re-elected. Any move to change the ticket needed to happen more than a year ago and be led and directed by Biden.
https://www.rawstory.com/biden-nomination/
4The poor pony that tRump ‘Gish Gallops’ around on is the wettest, most worn-out nag ever to stumble back into the stable when it finally gets put up for the night.
I watched all of that damned “debate” and I was screaming at the effing teevee. There has never been any political figure in our history who emitted such a voluminous non-stop stream of amazing GD lies and utter bullshit in the (very excessive, relatively) time ‘allotted’.
The CNN ‘moderation’ totally sucked.
The Convicted Felon Mango Mussolini got far more talk time and deference than our honorable sitting US President Joe Biden. Who was consistently short-timed and shortchanged, and given gratuitous ‘instructions’, while the Felonious Sonuvabitch was fawned over and given every assistance and advantage. JFC (cubed).
And, BTW, I used the TV ‘Closed Caption’ option to read the ‘debate’ dialogue as it was broadcast.
tRump’s vacuous verbiage was translated almost perfectly into the screen captioning.
Biden’s vocal dialogue was butchered beyond recognition, it was mostly unintelligible to read (and at times extremely misleading).
I have no idea whether this was an intentional further obstacle against Biden, or if whatever mechanisms are used to do the captioning translations were just having difficulty with Biden’s voice and cadence versus that of DJT.
Did anyone else use CC’ing and notice this anomaly?
A good take on DiJioT’s firehose of lying bullshit, which has been mostly unchallenged and unremarked on by the ‘pundit class’ of MSM propagandists:
“Trump’s Gish Gallop and Brandolini’s law”:
https://www.dailykos.com/comments/2249631/88908485#comment_88908485
“micaspence
PadreMellyrn
Jun 29, 2024 at 02:37:56 PM
that unfortunately is the beauty..
“you want different lies, I’ve got different lies. I’ve got a million lies, big lies, little lies, any kind of lies you want..”
“I have the most beautiful lies, my big beautiful brain can come up with a million more right now, Biden can’t come up with a million, only I can”
“a top brain specialist came up to me, with tears in his eyes, now this was a big strong man, but he had tears in his eyes, and he said, this is unbelievable, we’ve never seen anything like this before, no one has ever lied like you. Never in the history of the world has there been a bigger, better liar. You aced the lying test””
The Felonious One is beyond a doubt the lyingest sonuvabitch anywhere, ever…
5OMFG!!
Absolutely the truest, most disgusting political image ever seen before:::
(absolutely do not look if you are easily queezed)
Vlad Putin’s slavering Hounddog, eewwwww:
https://cdn.prod.dailykos.com/images/1301772/large/GK1Mfg8WcAAnupj.jpg
“Remember when the NYT called for Trump to drop out? I do not.”:
6https://www.dailykos.com/comments/2249635/88910138#comment_88910138
Sandridge, ya think the media would call out his obvious dangerous lies? Hell no. The NYT is pissed at being snubbed by Biden so the’ve decided to try and defeat him. I canceled my subscription months ago and hope others do, too. This both sides shtick by the media including the NYT is a money grubbing ploy which I hope comes back to haunt them.
7When I heard that this debate was going to be different due to some massive changes involving monitoring and shutting off microphones when necessary, I got excited. I’ve been to the type of debates done by debating societies and I was hoping beyond hope that this one would not be just another “howling” event. OH well, there is another one coming up and after the disaster of this one, I hope that the monitors will have the moxie to actually do their jobs and prohibit the existence of just another howling event. Of course, Trump still has to show up at a sentencing hearing on July 11th. That might be IT for him.
8Politics is a lot about predicting the future, and debate disaster should not have been hard to predict (and avoid). For me, the current situation looks a lot like Biden’s version of Trumps infamous “only I can save the country”.
IMHO, the establishment of Democratic Party and current administration is doing a huge disservice to the country right now, enabling Trump, plus making the U.S. a laughing stock in the eyes of the rest of the world. Is an 81 yrs old ailing man really the best that (supposedly) the greatest country can do, while looking for the next president??
What comes to Trump and his lies – there is nothing new there. It’s not constructive, at least IMO, us concentrating on him, instead of straightening things up on our side of the field. Blaming moderators for not fact checking sounds like looking for the scapegoat. That should have been Biden’s job to be sharp enough to call him on his BS.
Yep, Trump may not have winning voters over on Thursday. But I bet my retirement money that so didn’t Biden. If anything, he lost votes. Also, I think that relying on VP and advisers is a slippery slope. I mean… does it sound good, that hey, The Guy is slipping away, but he has a great crew? I mean, we are talking about THE UNITED STATES PRESIDENT here, for Christ’s sake. The most important job in the world.
p.s. For the record, I’m a registered Democrat.
9Frau Free, I don’t disagree with anything you said, but the dilemma now is what does the leadership of the democratic party do? I wish the discussion and direction would have come months ago. I fear it’s past the time to change. But what do I know.
10Seems to be quite a bit of hysteria and hyperbole here. Biden has proven to be a most effective president during his tenure. He has surrounded himself with able, highly qualified advisors – no Bannon’s or Miller’s to be found. The presidency rarely requires snap decisions, and even then, those advisors are nearby. I trust Biden to sit at the table, surrounded by wise, capable men and women, and produce an agenda that provides the best for our country. None of the aforementioned words would ever apply to Trump. All this caterwauling will simply enable a dystopian future. Calm down!
11Steve@8 – yep, that discussion should have been held months ago. I do not have a crystal ball, but my gut feeling says that stubbornly staying on the same old course will be more hurtful for Democrats than an abrupt course change. Then again, I have been wrong before.
12dbtexas@9 – I agree with you about snap decisions and advisers. But this is only a part of the president’s job. The other part includes travelling, eye to eye meeting with world leaders etc. In other words, being the face and voice of the United States. Based on Biden’s performance on Thursday, I personally doubt that he is up to it. Four years is a long time, and he doesn’t get any younger. Being a wise and good man as he supposedly is – why on earth does he cling to power? Why did he not pass the torch after first term? RBG syndrome. Ultimately, it’s hurting the country.
I recommend everyone watch Lawrence O’Donnell’s intro from Friday night. Then chill.
And now I introduce my historical cautionary tale.
In 1955, Winston Churchill, an 80 year-old drunk, retired and was replaced as prime minister by Anthony Eden.
As it turned out, the first crisis he faced involved the Middle East. You could not possibly have cast a more qualified man to handle it:
Double First from Oxford in Oriental languages (Persian and Arabic), over 20 years serving in e highest echelons of government, in the prime of life.
And Eden made the stupidest foreign policy decision of the postwar period in Britain.
I’ll stick with Joe.
13FrauFree@10 – I still respectfully disagree. Biden has held up well during his many travels representing the US. Witness Trump riding in a golf cart while other leaders walked to a designated area during a meeting of world powers. Four years is a long time, but history is rife with aged and powerful personages that have proved equal to extreme challenges. Again, I refer to a great leaders ability to surround themselves with a competent, energetic support staff. I’ll take the old guy rather than the one in the golf cart!
14dbtexas@12 – I totally agree about taking the old guy rather than the one in the golf cart. I believe any of us here would.
15But the question is not about us, it’s about independent/undecided voters, at least IMO. Before Thursday many of them would have held their nose and voted for Biden, but after Thursday, even if they do not vote for Trump, not voting at all is hurtful to Dems. We lost lots of votes on Thursday, if you ask me.
I agree FrauFree, but at this point, all we can do is vote. Too late to change the ticket. Biden knows he put himself in a hole. He and his administration and campaign staff know what they need to do and we can only hope they execute a plan to get out of the hole with skeptical democrats, independents and never trumpers.
16I sure hope the supreme RWNJs 6 don’t put their feet further on to the scales of justice and let TFFG off.
The US is generally split into tribalism. The people who will decide the fate of the US (and probably our Earth) are the tiny number of “undecided” voters in the so-called swing states.
See: https://tinyurl.com/2k8k2z5u
A way forward is to make the election story as clear as possible to these “swing voters” to understand what type of country will tend to exist if TFG gets in versus Joe (D). Do you want to live in a Christofascist, autocratic Handmaid’s Tale version of Putin’s Russia or a democratic, secular, multi-racial society? Pick one. Then vote for the type of future you want to live in.
17I’m sticking with Joe!
But WTF &%#$??? We lost the messaging again! The real scary and dangerous story of the debate was, and we need to shout this over and over from the rooftops …
18‘treasonous tRump repeatedly FAILED to answer if he would accept the results of a free and fair election.’
Dbtexas mentioned Trump’s golf-cart ride at the G 20 summit as an indicator of how Trump appears to world leaders. Another interaction that furthered highlights what world leaders think of Trump occurred at the 2019 NATO summit where Boris Johnston, Trudeau, and Macron were caught on mike laughing at Trump. As a consequent of that situation when the 2020 G20 gathered to discuss COVID, Trump went golfing rather than attend – probably to avoid further humiliation.
As for those independent/undecided voters in swing states, I don’t think they exist in this election. Half the time I believe this is media’s bid for ratings and the other half a voter’s need for attention. Any voter with half a brain and who has been around for the last two presidential election cycles can’t be that ignore of what is at stake in this election. They lived through a divisive, vitriol Trump presidency and have also lived through a Biden presidency. If these “undecided” aren’t aware of Project 2025 and what Trump wants to do as soon as he becomes president which isn’t completely out of the realm of possibilities (we never thought that a “January 6” event was a possibility but it happened), then there isn’t hope for them or us. It isn’t like these messages about Trump aren’t out there, they are. They even appear on Fox at times.
19If a potential voter doesn’t understand and object to Trump’s lies, criminality, and moral failings, and if that voter doesn’t understand or appreciate Biden’s successful policy accomplishments during the last term, and if that voter can’t see or understand the dangerous path Maga Republicans want for this country (or supports that path), why would such potential voters care a whit about Biden’s debate performance, whether out of the park or in the tank?
How can a debate change a non-existent mind?
And Maga media wing already had both bases covered: a strong Biden performance would mean he was “jacked up” on drugs and not himself, and a less than stellar performance would mean Biden is an incompetent danger to the country.
I agree with Half Empty and Fenway Fran – – – I would be surprised if Biden lost a single vote in this debate.
20