Well Hell
Look, let’s just make this easier and give Putin the keys to the country.
Get a load of this: Conservatives want Trump to pardon the 13 Russians. Yeah, and Mike Flynn, and Manafort, and George Papadopoulos, and Rick Gates, and two hookers in Des Moines, Iowa, and that guy who shot the bald eagle and then ran over it several times in his all terrain vehicle. (Okay, so maybe not the last two, but who the hell knows?)
“I think he should be pardoning anybody who’s been indicted and make it clear that anybody else who gets indicted would be pardoned immediately,” said Frederick Fleitz, a former CIA analyst and senior vice president at the conservative Center for Security Policy.
Their theory is that if everybody knows they are going to get a pardon, then they won’t squeal on higher-ups and we can just declare that America is a wholly owned subsidiary of the State Duma.
Some conservatives think it would be wiser for Trump to wait until after the mid term elections. Here’s that reasoning brought to you by the alt-right.
Even some conservatives who support pardons in principle are wary of the severe political backlash they are certain to trigger. Mike Cernovich, a prominent alt-right activist, said he believes the moment for pardons has passed and that Trump needs to wait until after the November mid-term elections.
“If the Democrats take over, pardon everyone,” Cernovich said. “They’re coming for you anyway. They have their nuke with impeachment. You have your nuke with pardons. And then settle in for an interesting two years.”
I love how destroying democracy is their idea of “interesting.” Boy, they must think cock fighting is “a delightful fifteen minutes.”
Thanks to S Gray for the heads up.
I’m sure NY and NJ are preparing for that eventuality for the Trump, his family and Jared if Trump pardons his family members.Lots of what they have done can be prosecuted at the state level.
1What the republicans are not thinking about is setting a precedent. All the irregular things Trump does and if he pardons all these people, then down the line, Democrats can do the same things.
“Their theory is that if everybody knows they are going to get a pardon, then they won’t squeal on higher-ups”
The problem with this theory is that once you pardon someone it is a) an admission of their guilt which then can be used against you later, and b) the pardoned party loses all 5th amendment protections since they are no longer in legal jeopardy.
Unless, of course, there are state charges to deal with as well. In that case there is no pardon power in the presidency.
2Where is the concern for America, the patriotism these nutjobs are constantly touting? This push to pardon exposes the conservative mindset all too well: self preservation, greed and addiction to power. Hopefully, Mueller has a contigency plan for just such a move, state charges which Herr Drumpf cannot pardon. Looking more that Drumpf’s goose is cooked.
3Can’t help but think that those tax returns are going to figure in charges soon. Bring on Elliot Ness.
Diane wrote: “All the irregular things Trump does and if he pardons all these people, then down the line, Democrats can do the same things.”
If the GWB years taught us anything it should have been that the Republicans don’t care one iota for any precedent that might come back to bite them. I wish Juanita had $1 for every time we heard on cable news or read in print media: “the Republicans should consider how they will feel if Democrats have the power they are claiming for themselves after the next election cycle!”
Well they didn’t. And won’t.
4My response to this would earn me a rebuke from your Mom, so I’ll just say what MY mom would say in a case like this: “Cavalry Words”.
5I was at a Beto O’Rourke appearance this weekend. He said that he read the Democratic Intel Committee memo when it was on the floor of the House for all the members to read. Without telling us one thing that was in it — despite many requests — he did say (1) There is a reason Trump and his deplorables attack Mueller and the FBI at every turn — they know what is coming; it is very bad; and they have to work to undermine it and (2) we are headed to a constitutional crisis in the fall that will make Watergate look like child’s play. Those aren’t exactly his words — but very close.
6Even Al Capone eventually ended up in prison. Trump can’t pardon his tax returns.
7One big reason the coming Constitutional crisis will be bigger than Watergate is that Watergate was confined to the Executive branch. Nixon had his defenders in Congress, but when his crimes were finally exposed, they left him. Now the GOP in the Legislative branch– and likely the Judicial– is just as corrupt as the Executive, and they are in the majority.
8We know, or rather I think we know, that the Mueller team works closely with the various attorneys-general to get a broad-spectrum prosecution. Federal prosecution of Federal crimes, with a presidential pardon at the end of the tunnel, and state prosecution for state crimes, outside the range of presidential pardons.
And yes, imho, the idea that a presidential pardon awaits indicted co-conspirators if they just keep their mouths shut won’t work in the way that cons think. La Cosa Nostra exchanges a lifetime of support for wife and children in exchange for silence and ultimately death. A pardon might save jail time, but taints the living person for life. The cons better be arranging a lifetime safety net for that silence. Even a middle-aged guy still has 20-ish years to work, create wealth, and save for life after 65 or 70.
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