The Rule of Law
I was wrong. It is just easy enough to start there and fill in the blanks later. I was wrong. When I was being brought up, I was taught that the default position on every politician was to start from the assumption that everyone was a patriotic American. They wanted what was best for America and we simply disagreed with them on what that looks like. Therefore, political prosecutions were generally bad because it would devolve into a tit for tat game and nothing would ever get done.
I was wrong. Then again, I wasn’t wrong about all of it. I wasn’t wrong about how the other side would react. At the end of the day, all of this stems from a misunderstanding about what this is ultimately all about. One side is interested in the rule of law. The other side really isn’t. Oh sure, they say they are interested and no one would ever say they are against the rule of law, but that’s not what this is all about and it never has been.
Buried in all of the Trump nonsense was the death of Pat Robertson. I’m not for making even idle talk about what happens to other men’s souls. That’s not for me to decide and it never has been. However, legacies are something else entirely. The religious right swallowed the Republican party whole and turned it into something even Richard Nixon wouldn’t recognize. Niccolo Machiavelli wrote his now famous words in “The Prince”. “The ends justify the means.” Now, we see the ultimate intersection of warped faith and craven self-interest wrapped up into one simple line.
The right is entitled to lead. They are entitled to lead because they are “the party of God.” Obviously, this label is self-appointed, but they have browbeat the general public into believing it is true. So, people of God have three very distinct choices. They can acquiesce and become a member of the religious right, they can fight back and try as best they can to maintain their faith and their political truth, or they can shun God. The battlefield of the last 40+ years tells the tale. Church attendance is down. Faith professions are down. At the same time, the makeup of the church and the church itself doesn’t jive with the church many of us experienced in our youth. Pat Robertson was not the only one to bring this forward, but he definitely is one of the leading suspects.
When the ends justify the means it doesn’t matter what your guy (or gal) does. It can’t be illegal if it is done to forward our political ends. Nothing we do is illegal because we were born to lead and anything in the furtherance of this leadership is righteous. Meanwhile, anything you do is the opposite. That one phrase (the ends justify the means) ultimately separates us and explains our divide. They threaten investigations of Hunter Biden and Hillary Clinton as if we care. They talk about locking her up or locking him up as if it matters to us. It comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding about the rule of law. We use the rule of law because HOW you do things is just as important if not more important than WHAT you do. They use the rule of law as a means to power. Power is the end. The end justifies the means. I was wrong. I just don’t know how many people on the other side even grasp the concept here.
Well said.
1Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. -Lord Acton
2Sometime back in the 90s, I remember having dinner with my Uncle Marty and Aunt Betty – good Republicans, both of them. Uncle Marty asked me why I was a Democrat and I told him that a big reason was that the Republican Party was in bed with the Religious Right and I wanted no parts of that.
I was assured this was not the case by both Uncle and Aunt. Ipso facto, I should be a Republican.
Sorry, no, I see what I see and I’m not switching my registration on your say so.
Uncle Marty passed not long after that conversation. I miss him to this day and wonder what he’d think of what his party has become. He was one of the most intelligent, thoughtful and reasonable people I have known.
3Thanks Nick, without the Rule of Law we would become a more barbaric species. But it takes an honest and sane society to sustain that. Bigotry and Religious extremism does not qualify as that.
The Truth is NOT their truth, besides it’s against their religion. Trump is their savior to protect trump fans from the evil Liberals, Gays, etc. etc.. You know, the evil bogey men Fox ‘Hate’ News, wingnut and religious right radio and evangelicals have been demonizing all these years. We now have a whole generation brought up on right wing Hate. The tell-tail shiny Crosses around their necks is a dead giveaway. They are the chosen ones. As my religious right neighbor sternly told me, “You know, America IS a Christian Nation.”
Oldie but goodie and took me awhile to digest the strict punishing god part but I now see the light …
‘What conservatives really want’
“Conservatives really want to change the basis of American life, to make America run according to the conservative moral worldview in all areas of life.
Above all, the authority of conservatism itself must be maintained. The country should be ruled by conservative values, and progressive values are seen as evil. Science should have authority over the market, and so the science of global warming and evolution must be denied. Facts that are inconsistent with the authority of conservatism must be ignored or denied or explained away. To protect and extend conservative values themselves, the devil’s own means can be used again conservatism’s immoral enemies, whether lies, intimidation, torture, or even death, say, for women’s doctors.”
https://blogs.berkeley.edu/2011/02/22/what-conservatives-really-want/
Uncle Pat you say?
‘How Pat Robertson Helped Create The Christian Nationalist Lawyer Brigade Reshaping American Life’
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/how-pat-robertson-helped-create-the-christian-nationalist-lawyer-brigade-reshaping-american-life
and ….
‘Where Did the Religious Nuttery Come From?’
4https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/7/11/2109625/-Where-Did-the-Religious-Nuttery-Come-From
“Evil starts when you begin to treat people as things”-Terry Pratchett
5I heard a talk by Niels Nielsen (sp?), retired head of the Rice religion department. He had written a book on religions of our Presidents and turns out Trump is the only President. We have never had a President who is not a MEMBER of a Christian church. Yet so-called Christians flock to him. If he isn’t the anti-Christ, I don’t know who is.
6I resent the radical religious right laying claim to my flag and the Cross. I have had a flag on the house forever and worn a cross since first communion. It didn’t use to be a declaration of Party affiliation. I refuse to allow them sole possession. It’s been about 100 years since the religious right had so much power when they forced Prohibition on us. Look how that turned out. Now they are riding the abortion bandwagon for political power.
7The first part of that is interesting Grandma. I think we all knew that Trump was either a non-believer or an atheist but I would have assumed at least one other president fit into that category. I’d bet most of us did.
I think what is decidedly not interesting but more frightening is how easy it was for him to convince enough people that he was a believer/follower. I don’t think it was anything he did necessarily because he is so stupidly transparent that no one could claim they were honestly fooled by him. It just goes back to the “I want this and I don’t care what my reps have to do to get it” mentality. The cure is sometimes worse than the disease. Centuries of religious wars, crusades, inquisitions, and dangerous theocratic power should have taught us this. Sadly it didn’t.
8Oh, and I’m right there with you Jace. I suppose I fit into the second category of holding on for dear life and pushing back as hard as I can. I’ve come to a point in my life where I have considered the diaconate in the church. It is a huge undertaking. It is six years of intense training and education where either party (you or the church) can end it at any point. It would actually give me a second masters if I were to complete it.
Ultimately, two things currently sit as road blocks. First, your spouse has to do a lot to and I don’t think my wife is at a point in her personal faith where she is able to do that. She is rapidly becoming a part of that third group that comes to shunning religion because of what people do in religion’s name. The second thing is reconciling my own misgivings about what the church preaches in some circles. So, it becomes a existential crisis of whether I can be authentic to me and my beliefs and serve the church well at the same time.
I imagine what would happen is that the church would eventually weed me out for one or both of those reasons. So, it becomes a question of whether I want to go through that process just to find the result I expect to come at the off-chance that I might get through it all. I think the church needs more progressive/moderate voices but just don’t know if this is the right vehicle for that.
9Exactly what are conservative values now? I was never sure to begin with. Maybe someone can tell me.
10I know by actions under 45 and his R members of Congress that the concern for the national debt is not real. The rich should get richer is everything for those repugnanticans.
The party of law and order? What a joke.
The party of faith, whatever that means. Ugh. BS.
Like Jace, I also resent the American flag being kidnapped by the trumpf cult. My blood boils when I see a big pickup truck with a Trump sticker next to an assault rifle decal and an American flag waving from it. Not all in the repugnantican party are in the cult but let’s face it, they are in control of party.
@nick #9, I feel so sad reading your post!
If you want to be a light of faith in the world, I suggest going outside the Catholic hierarchy and getting a Master of Arts in Social Change. Several seminaries offer this degree – I earned it in 2015 from Starr King School for the Ministry (Unitarian Universalist).
I believe Iliff and Union also offer this degree. There may be more seminaries offering it since I graduated; I haven’t looked in a while.
An MDiv from any liberal seminary is also a possibility.
The bottom line is that it doesn’t matter which denomination confers your degree. If it’s something you desire, it’s up to you to pursue it and then to use it for good in the world.
I found Starr King to be welcoming to students of all faith backgrounds. I’m an agnostic and I had classmates who came from Christian, Muslim, Wiccan, Buddhist, Jewish, Mennonite and Quaker traditions. I’m probably missing a few.
I think it’s unrealistic that the Catholic Church expects your spouse to be involved with the deaconate program any more than the shifting of duties a graduate degree would require in a healthy relationship.
And the Church wonders why their membership is shrinking!
I wish you luck on your journey, Nick. We at the salon are here for you.
11My sincere apologies if I’ve offended anyone with my religious rants. My issue is with those that weaponize Christianity instead of promoting the true teaching of Christ (Love, forgiveness and helpfulness to others). I consider myself to be ‘universal’, satisfy my spiritual quest from many sources. One I really like is the old hippie Bible, The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ. If interested, the Introduction is a must read.
12https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/agjc/index.htm
Yes, there were Presidents who didn’t participate. Abe Lincoln, for example, was a member of a Presbyterian church, probably because of his wife. Nielsen stressed that it was membership, not necessarily belief.
13You are good Lex. All of us must develop a thicker skin. If one flies off the handle or becomes belligerent because of what someone else says about religion then how secure are they? I see exactly what you see every Sunday and out in the world. It feels like quicksand after awhile. The harder you fight the faster you sink.
14Nick,
I did the Lay ministry program. 2 years of classes.
It was still a shock( even though I knew) that women would not be allowed to continue into the Deaconate program.
The church missed out on some very compassionate, intelligent, religious women because of their stance on women serving in the church. It is their loss.
I left the church a few years after that.
I never looked back.
It amazed me that wives have to be so involved in the Deaconate program with their husbands. Yet priests are forbidden to marry and carry the burden of ministering to their parishioners alone.
15Yet another reason for my reticence. My pastor was complaining the other night about the shortage of priests and blamed it partially on the deaconate. He pointed out (without any hint of irony) that there are more deacons because deacons can be married. You are absolutely spot on about women in the church. In my parish, they are the most knowledgeable and faithful people and yet have little to no authority or respect.
16Nick. God bless you for wanting to serve but really rethink the deacon thing. Maybe it’s different now but 40 years ago when they were just reinventing the deaconships in the church I had two very devout friends that went through the program. Most of the clergy seemed to be resentful and threatened by sharing their authority. A lot of the priests treated the deacon couples like indentured servants, at the beck and call. It was a real strain on a marriage. If the spouse ain’t on board it’s very painful. Please interview veteran deacons. I took a severe pass. There are other ways to serve and aid.
17I’m still discerning. I haven’t made any final decisions yet. Thank you for the kind words and your concern.
18We’re all aware of the centuries old Roman Catholic clerical male dominance hierarchy, but the Southern Baptists have finally shown their true colors with a resounding slap in the face to women of the SBC.
PBS NewsHour covered the SBC’s recent conclave where one of the things that was overwhelmingly approved is severely limiting women in leadership positions.
[I personally have absolutely no use for any of the ‘religions’ known to humans, and especially the powerful organized ones. Having been an agnostic since about the age of fifteen, a conclusion logically reached after years of religious indoctrination.]
All part of the plan to convert our USA to a Christofascist theocracy, by whatever means they deem necessary or convenient.
Time is running out, librul peeps, we had better destroy them [..electorally of course…] in the 2024 election or all is lost. You have surely noticed the dozens of signs of their steadily encroaching grasp on the throat of our nation?
.
Southern Baptist Convention bans female pastors, ejecting several churches in the process
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/southern-baptist-convention-bans-female-pastors-ejecting-several-churches-in-the-process
“The Southern Baptist Convention moved to strike women from holding leadership roles in its churches. The organization also voted to finalize the expulsion of two churches for having female pastors, Saddleback Church in Southern California and Fern Creek Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky. Geoff Bennett discussed the impact of the decision with Fern Creek’s Rev. Linda Barnes Popham.”
19@Sandridge #19—I was going to write about the SBC but you’ve covered it very well. The Saddleback Church in SoCal is one of the largest in the SBC and was started by Rick Warren (“The Purpose Driven Life”). To cast him out because he allowed women to be pastors is pretty remarkable. Why any woman would want to remain in the SBC after this just shows how deep the patriarchy is in that group.
20Thanks Nick! I enjoy your posts, always get me a thinkin.
21Having read through the article and the comments I’m confused. The United States, the new world wasn’t it a refuge a safe space for religious freedom, freedom from being unjustly taxed without having representation? Clearly religion formed us and yet it cripples us. Taxes….payment for services rendered by ruling entities that mostly the general populace shoulders. Power…that craved and held by those governing bodies that supposedly give back to those that support and feed and vote for those governing bodies be they church or state.
22As to the religious righties, who wouldn’t want to live the perfect life, Donna Reed, Father knows best, church on Sunday, school on Monday, golf on the weekend, happy shiny people life? At some point the realities of life need to peek through that and does. Politics, well who gives those guys the power…….not voters, couldn’t possibly be all us smart peoples with our voting rights that should take responsibility for that? As a recent Medicare recipient I now understand what Bernie was going on about. All the peeps we voted in there making sure they have medical only to make the rules harder for the contributing to receive what they thought they were paying into for the benefit of all. Is that the ends justifying the means?
Todays trumpf repugnanticans epitomized by Curt Schilling. What a piece of (crap emoji). He’s certainly sunk into a dark hole sine he played in the MLB).
23https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-curt-schilling/
There are essentially three models of voting that make sense Cathy (as a in-depth way of answering your question). The first, is that you have a governing philosophy and vote for people that come closest to that governing philosophy. The second is that you want the very best people to represent you and so you make a value judgment on each candidate and vote for the person you deem to be the best human. The last one is the one we are currently seeing. It is the fan version of voting. In this case, the GOP or Trump are my team. It doesn’t matter what he or the team actually does or what they stand for. I will always support my team. I can only put it in the sports frame because that’s the only other portion of society that comes close to masking this type of thinking.
Granted, many sports fans don’t follow this line of thinking. They aren’t the face painters or tailgating type. So, when someone on THEIR team acts like a jackass they generally accept it and call it out. Yet, there is always a subset of fans that will defend their team no matter what. Players could commit atrocities. Coaches could overlook craven acts of depravity and they (the fans) still defend them. They will use tortured logic or flat out lie to protect them.
The first two models (ideology vs. best human) make perfect sense and are equally defensible. People that follow either one don’t use the same language as the third folks. Sadly, a higher percentage of Americans are the third kind and most of those are on the right. There is a way to attack them, but most in the first two camps use one of their tried and true methods. We use ideology (he didn’t keep any of his promises) or they use morality (he is the worst person ever) and it won’t penetrate that. The way to attack them is to convince them that their team will lose if they continue to back them. In Houston that might look like trashing Davis Mills not because he’s a bad person, or because he doesn’t believe the same things, but because he simply sucks as a quarterback. The Texans will lose as long as he is quarterback. In this case, the GOP will lose as long as Donald Trump is the standard bearer. That’s the only way to convince them and even then it’s a long shot.
24In my lifetime of voting, I have voted for the least objectionable candidate when neither was good. I guess that’s possibly the 4th model. At some point, I hope that a portion of far right repugnanticans will hold their nose for Biden and not vote for clearly objectionable (and dangerous) characters like trumpf or Desantis next fall. That probably happened in 2020, or people didn’t vote at all.
25Nick @24 and others: There is no dialogue with an ideologue. IMO, to effect change in these types of people 2 things are necessary – something that attacks them personally and/or immediate family presenting a true threat in their mind and that this danger can be tied to trump.
26Even then there will be those up that famous river in Egypt regardless.
Nick @24, said “I can only put it in the sports frame because that’s the only other portion of society that comes close to masking this type of thinking.”
I’m glad that you posted this. I’ve been wanting to state something for a long time, but was too polite or the right opportunity didn’t present.
Finally, I will say it, with your useful analogy tying in : ‘Sport fans are the dumbest critters in the universe!’.
[heading for airconditioned bunker now…]
27Sandridge, while I don’t agree with that statement in the broadest sense, I think I know what you’re talking about and definitely agree that it applies to some folks. People who live and breathe one or more sports to the point that it consumes every moment of attention not dedicated to direct personal requirements.
I believe those folks have always lived in a world where all human interactions are seen by them through the perspective of the sideline, or dugout.
Or ring corner.
No need for laws or societal norms of behavior.
Whatever’s best for the team is what’s right.
“Don’t talk shit if you can’t back it up.
F**k with the bull you get the horn.”
Those folks have always been the ones who never paid attention to The News.
Unless it was the sports page.
And then the sports guy at 6:00 and 10:00.
And now any f**king jackwagon that posts something.
Somewhere.
Anywhere.
Cause they’re (said jackwagons) sports people.
They never had any need for actual news.
Especially if it somehow conflicted with the worldview from the dugout.
“MATTER OF FACT, the more regler news conflicted with the worldview, the more they’re fulla shit.”
So I don’t know how much folks like Roger Ailes and Mort Blackwell based their models of influencing people on sports coverage through the decades.
28But I think I spot some similarities between the realities they’ve spent trillions pushing,
And the world of professional wrestling.
P.P. @28, You get it. I meant ‘Sport fanatics and Rethugs are…’, but the revision got lost.
I’ve seen so many with their lives wrapped up in their fanaticism, the two most common being those ones.
And it affects so much around them, they spend money on it better spent for their families, etc.
Nearby, an entire major city is in a feverish state over getting a 1st draft pick for a majorly losing ball team which will cost hundreds of million$. And a couple million fools are eager to hand over some of their money to a bunch of mercenary owners and players, buy stupid flags and T-shirts, betting, etc. To the detriment of their families and other much more worthy things.
I personally will renew my boycott of not spending my money in that city. I began it ages ago when I was on a long TDY in that city and TPTB rammed through [with the fools hearty support] a plan to build the AlamoDome. –Publicly financed– to the benefit of the rich team owners, primarily with a “sales tax”.
29Since then I have spent very little there, them not getting the tax from me, revising my shopping habits [way outside the norm] as needed.
The AlamoDome became a white elephant, that team dumping out of it quickly and getting another place publicly financed too.
You can bet on that rapacious team of thieves to be back pushing for yet another taxpayer financed sports palace now [this money grab is always just below the surface, rumored to cost over $1Billion!]. And the sports fools will swallow it whole.
I knew what you were saying Sandridge. It’s the only frame I have for these MAGA folks. I’ve never seen people so invested in all the merch and somehow think since the other side don’t buy merch that means there are more MAGAs than everyone else. It’s like the subset of fans that blame the umpires or referees for their defeat. It couldn’t have been bad coaching or inferior play. I love baseball and golf and consider football a secondary love. It’s entertaining and provides something to look forward to. Maintaining balance is key.
30I have to share this. The article and comments above cover a lot of ground. Something happened this week with my grandson’s little league game (he’s 10 on a post spring season all star team- ok I’m a proud grandpa) that caught me off guard. My grandson hit a 2-run double to the fence and on second base he put his hands on his hat with his index fingers pointing up. When asked what that meant, he said you “mess with the bull you get the horns. Then when P.P. said in his comment above that “you f**k with the bull you get the horn”, I thought that was curious until I heard from my grandson. Must be a baseball saying I’d never heard in 72 years but made me smile. FYI, he’s a better ball player than I ever was.
31Happy Father’s Day to all you fathers!
HA! That all makes perfect sense. I don’t know why I didn’t see it, the sports mind. It’s all sports all the time here in our household. So you would think I would have caught on to the comparison fan base for fan base. My hubby is a Boston Red Sox fan for life…..Bruins, Celtics and Patriots. Loyal for each and every season no deviations, no secondary teams until Brady moved to Tampa. Then Tampa games were let onto our TV screens. So with the sports analogy I get it. Sports Zombies. As to the merch, I thought it was all freebies given to them by the Orange one, I’ve seen him throw those red hats out to his base. Free stuff to all land, how generous I am ….and all that. P.S. I’m so glad that hubby isn’t a fan of TFG. Thanks for the insight. Batter Up! Knock him outta da pahk
32On Saturday, I marched with my temple in the Louisville Pride Parade. It was as fun, colorful and full of joy as any parade I can remember. As a Reform Jew, are presence in the parade was not surprising. But my son, who watched the parade, was surprised to see many churches marching, including four Baptist churches (obviously not SBC). It was also nice to see that all of the big local employers had floats in the parade. Texas Roadhouse (a restaurant chain based in Louisville) had over 100 marchers in Pride t-shirts and the company bus with a balloon rainbow on top. Love > Hate
The shrill voices from the right are directly related to their shrinking audience.
33Holy crap, on MSNBC a writer for the Atlantic has the quote of the month IMHO.
34Morality is to trump what colors are to the color blind.