Smoke in Your Eyes
I am given to understand that we have a new Pope.
From CNN –
Here’s more about Pope Francis, the former Cardinal Bergoglio of Argentina: He is 76, and is considered a straight-shooter who calls things as he sees them, and a follower of the church’s most conservative wing.
He has clashed with the government of President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner over his opposition to gay marriage and free distribution of contraceptives.
Besides being the first non-European pope in the modern era, the first South American pope and the third straight non-Italian pope, he also is the first Pope Francis.
Hope he’s a better pope than the last guy. I liked John Paul II the best.
I was commenting elsewhere, as someone who wasn’t raised Catholic and isn’t even religious now, I none-the-less think of the pope as “our pope” and will say things along the lines of I’ll say things like “the other day, our pope said…” or “I don’t like this new pope as much as our old pope…”
I talk the same way about the Dalai Llama, and I’m not buddhist either. Weird.
1Already?
2bad editing up above. I think the gist comes across though.
3So it would seem.
All I can say is that the ……. what’s the word I’m looking for….. the pompous excess… that was on display this week, would feed the hungry in any poor country in the world…. for at least that long.
It is amazing to me that a religion with as much wealth, has so many who live in poverty.
4He’s a Jesuit. That could be a good sign; they’re usually very smart and fairly progressive.
5From Argentina.
No word yet as to the name he will choose to be known by.
6Francis I. If he follows in the footsteps of St Francis of Assisi, then it’s a good sign.
7Ah, yes. Agree on he pompous excess, although I — a Methodist– do love a certain of pageantry. Watching the new pope speak to the thousands of people who have gathered in bad weather outside the basilica. My first reaction is that he is not all that personable. but the MSNBC folks are describing his speech as warm and from the heart. Apparently he is from Latin America.
8rumors are he’s a social-justice kinda guy, lived humbly as a Cardinal in Argentina, described the severe income inequality of South America as a “social sin,” but isn’t too warm towards marriage equality.
9I can identify with Juania’s attitude. It mirrors my own.
I like this Pope. He has one lung, lived in an apartment, rode the bus, cooked his own meals. He has a warm smile and a twinkle in his eye. He told his priests that they could not refuse Communion to the children of single mothers because that was not something Jesus would do.
yeah, that won me over – I am not a single mother, but if a man as a Caredinal of the Holy Roman Church can tell his priests that, then I am impressed and relieved.
That he is a Jesuit choosing the name of the leader of the Francisn order is so stunning in its break with the past. I see this as a sign of hope. Humble leadership giuided by the heart. May peace and joy surround us all – believers and non-believers. Everyone can believe in peace and joy (well, hopefully even right-wing Republicans – for them let us all pray in our own way for we need a new path.)
‘BTW, I can just see this new Pope getting alone with the Dalai Lama!
They both seem humble and compassionate. the Cardinals have surprised us.
Welcome Pope Francis!
10My apologies for all the typos.
11Ignore the Latinos of this world at your peril! Pope Francis’ long held care of the poor and disgarded in this world will drive the Santorums and Ryans of this world right up a wall.
12Does anybody know if Karl Rove has weighed in? Are all the votes counted yet?
13At 76, he is too old. Plus, one wonders if the Italian cabal decided that he wouldn’t be likely to look too closely into the affairs of the Vatican Bank or the rest of the Curia–which runs everything. Sigh.
14NPR reported he was tall and erect so apparently he’s excited about his new job.
Good article in Think Progress about his ties to the junta that ruled Argentina. I’m thinking more of the same.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/03/13/1714691/new-pope-elected/
15Things will not change in the church until women are allowed to be deacons, priests, bishops and Cardinals.
Until they have a say in the running of the church.
It is the very structure of this church that has allowed the abuse of children and women to occur and be covered up.
Until this structure changes, nothing will change.
I grew up in this church. It was so hard to leave it. But I very much believe that people need to adapt and change.
If you look around, things that do not change and adapt do not survive.
I know the church has survived for over 2,000 years. But the world and people are changing so fast and the church is not keeping up.
16This is off topic but I read this about Ted Cruz
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/ted-cruz-obamacare-government-shutdown_n_2867411.html
I was so angry that I called his office. I told him I did not live in Texas but his actions would affect me and my family if he and the republicans shut down the office.
Here it is. I hope you all will copy it and call often!!!!
(202) 224-5922 Sen. ted cruz
senate.gov will give you all the Senators info and house.gov for Congress. I am sick of these idiots and I have to do something. Calling them is something I can do.
17This from Andy Borowitz of “The Borowitz Report”:
A puff of white smoke over Vatican City today raised hopes among the faithful who jammed St. Peter’s Square until an official spokesman explained that the Vatican was “just burning some documents.”
“Wednesday is the day we traditionally burn documents and other legal evidence, and we totally forgot about the white smoke thing,” the Vatican spokesman said. “We apologize for any misunderstanding this might have caused.”
18Thanks, Diane. I just called and left the message that he is the next Allen West and enjoy it while he can, because his days are numbered and Texas is tired of being a laughingstock,just because we had enough goobers in one area to elect him.
19I lost out again. I wish him well.
20“He strongly opposed legislation introduced in 2010 by the Argentine Government to allow same-sex marriage. In a letter to the monasteries of Buenos Aires, he wrote: “Let’s not be naive, we’re not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.” He has also insisted that adoption by homosexuals is a form of discrimination against children.” from Atheism Facebook group
21Yeah, Bud, I was pullin’ for you. Pope Bud the Democrat would be such a cool name.
— John Fugelsang
22JJ, I thought you were pulling for ME! 🙁
Anyone who hopes that this Pope will emulate Francis of Assissi is going to be sadly disillusioned. It’s most likely he is named for Francis Xavier, co-founder of the Jesuits, who tried to bring the Inquisition to India (it came there 8 years after his death).
In the immortal words of Sergeant Hulka: LIGHTen up, Francis.
23Oh, Diane, I do hate Ted Cruz. Both for himself and because he makes Texas look even worse than it is.
For those of us without unlimited long distance, here’s the Capitol switchboard number: 1-866-220-0044
24Can’t wait to start not listening to him. As JJ says, “The only man in a dress I trust is Ru Paul.”
25Jesuits are known as learned and Pope Francis has a degree in Chemistry.
26He may be able to kick some butt at the Vatican and get the finances in order, but he is a religious conservative and will stick to the party line as far as dogma goes. Catholics who are gay or who believe in using contraception are on their own as usual.
What did this guy do during Argentina’s Dirty War? Did he oppose the junta or work with it?
27Corinne, he worked with the junta and was accused of helping them “disappear” a couple of unruly priests who actually worked with the poor instead of against them.
But that’s just an accusation. I don’t have confirmation.
28I know it’s a tired old joke, but I just can’t resist:
Inside word has it that Cardinal Sicola was a strong contender for Pope through the second and third ballots – until one of the younger Italian cardinals sitting in the back row piped up, “How you thinka dat gonna sound … Pope Sicola!!”
29Two days! That’s getting things done quickly. See what you can accomplish without a filibuster from Rand Paul, or 34 attempts to pass the same legislation by Paul Ryan?
30Of course the guy is a conservative, it goes with being the head honcho of a 2000 year old institution with a humongous bureaucracy, but Latin American conservative Catholics aren’t necessarily capitalists or even object to socialism in economic terms, and “don’t ask, don’t tell”, while not the most enlightened of policies, has been the way Latin Americans have dealt with married priests for the last 500 years. The guy hasn’t even been on the job for more than a few hours… I don’t think he can just click his ruby slippers three times and change everything. Let’s see if he even wears the ruby slippers.
31Not Italian? For a non-Italian, he’s more Italian than either of the last two popes. His parents were both Italian immigrants, and he grew up in Argentina speaking Italian at home.
That he’s a Jesuit seems to me to be a good thing, that he’s solidly rumored to have supported/cooperated with the military government Argentina had not so much.
32I heard that he urged his fellow Argentinians not to travel to Rome for his coronation (or whatever it is) but to give the money to the poor instead. Well, that’s something– shows he’s read at least some of the book.
For those who think he’s not Italian, his father, at least, was.
33BFD. What is confusing about “a follower of the church’s most conservative wing” and opposed to gay marriage and free contraception, in Latin America, no less? Brace yourselves for more of the same benighted policies we are all familiar with.
34Being a lapsed Catholic, my feeling is “same ole, same ole”. I know he’s against Argentina”s policy of free birth control for women & he’s against gay marriage. So, he wants women to be pregnant & happy, & he doesn’t want his fellow priests to marry. But I’ll see. For now I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
35Calling things like you see them is not a virtue when you believe in fairy tales and have imaginary friends.
36Today on MSNBC they stated Pope Francis had one of his lungs removed many years ago and that he was a chemist who decided at 32 he wanted to become a priest. While I certainly wish he was more progressive, I do appreciate that he is a humble man who has lived simply and does not go for all the finery and pomp that previous popes have indulged in. The Catholic Church could sell a few of the paintings and other art objects it has locked away and help the victims who suffered at the hands of priests.
37…..what Everyday Freethought said……:)
38Everyday Freethought, I am so stealing that line!
39Everyday, you captured everything in one short line. I’m ‘borrowing’ it, too.
Btw… the pope is an Italian, born in Argentina, a conservative cardinal that opposes progress in the church. That he took the name ‘Francis’ does not necessarily mean anything. He may have chosen to follow an Italian non ordained friar, Francis of Assisi, from early 1200’s, could be he chose to follow a Frenchman, Francis Xavier, a founder of the Society of Jesus, aka Jesuits, in the 1500’s. Both men shunned family wealth to “walk the talk” & became missionaries for the Roman Catholic Church. The cardinals might see him as the Church’s financial “savior” having the missionary zeal to convert billions of Asians, thinking that’s where the money is going to come from.
40Anyone Catholic or otherwise interested in the history of the Church, I highly recommend reading “A History of the Popes” (originally published as “Keepers of the Keys” in 1982) by Sir Nicolas Cheetham, an English classics scholar, educated at Christ Church – Oxford. He followed his father and became a diplomat to NATO, then as British Ambassador to Hungary (1961-1963) and Mexico (1968-1972). He is also the author of a number of books about history (Mexico, New Spain, Greece). Sir Cheetham’s “History of the Popes” is a slow read as straight history, but an excellent resource book.
41Storify has some stuff from his detractors.
http://storify.com/asteris/pope-francis-colluded-with-the-argentine-junta
I try to take these things with a grain of salt, but I’m running out of salt.
And the church’s history with dictators and monarchs makes it too easy to believe that they are still up to their old tricks.
42Karl Rove just weighed in at about 220….
43Sounds like he belongs in the Rick Santorum wing of the Republican party!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html
44@Everyday Freethought, I am so in line to steal that line; it’s great!
45He’s a Jesuit. Churches and orders change a little bit. I’m for giving him time but also remember that even when preachers and Bible scholars believe something strongly, their paycheck comes from organizations that are very human, so the Pope will have a struggle.
46If he supports the poor that will be an improvement, but it sounds as though he will double-down on the anti-gay and the anti-women. That’s what conservative and fundamentalist institutions normally do when they feel threatened by change.
47