Oh Yeah?
You wanna tell me how we could do that, McChrystal? You seems to be the damn expert on blame, Skippy.
It is impossible to overreact to what happened at the VA. We owe our soldiers a sacred trust. When that trust is violated, we damn well better overreact. We damn well better mean business.
McChrystal can kiss my big blue butt. He would do well to put his political future on a back burner and honor the service and sacrifice of the fighting men and women of America.
If anybody happens to run into McChrystal, please tell him I said “bite me.” And that I growled.
(Okay, okay, I admit that I might have overreacted just a tiny bit to McChrystal’s self serving and pompous comment, but that guy is General Jerk in my mind.)
I’m against war myself, but if our country IS going to have a military, they need to be willing to support the members of it, the real folks who do all the heavy lifting, and their families who are affected by it.
1One thing we are seeing a lot of is the right-wing privatization nuts talking about how all the problems would go away if we just turn the VA over to for-profit corporations. What we need to keep in mind is that every single malfeasance that has gone on in the VA also goes on in private corporations.
I once worked for a manufacturing company that had a time sheet code for “idle time” so they could track problems. The first thing our managers told us was never to use it; we should fake something that looked better. Managers everywhere tend to cover their a**es.
2I remember when we went to war with Iraq the second time, my mailbox was filled with forwarded emails from friends & family that displayed FLAGS! (with gif furling) and TROOPS! (with gif marching).
Where are all the emails from those folks now showing the veterans who need medical assistance? Vets get one day a year in November to have a flag waved around them. Too bad Halliburton isn’t in the medical services or medical appliances business or we’d see a call for more marching and flags, with commercials like:
“He marched off to war to keep your family safe. Shouldn’t he have the prosthesis he deserves? Halliburton wants every vet to be able to walk tall on the American soil he so proudly defended.”
Instead they get their name on a waiting list.
3Important to remember this guy’s retired as a general which means a more than adequate pension and full healthcare with no questions asked. Most VA health services go to guys who put in their stint and came out as enlisted or NCO ranks.If we’re not going to take care of our veterans let’s not make any more.I had a con on Facebook tell me the other day the determination not to create more veterans would have left us “speaking German”. No one has yet explained that statement to me, or told me why German and not Japanese.
4This would be the same Retired General McChrystal….. of Pat Tillman fame?
Please go away sir.
Let’s put the blame where it belongs….. on those people who are “Chiefs of Staff” of hospitals……. where veterans could not get care.
I’m all for Congress making it easier to rid ourselves of these “don’t know anythings.” However, I would bet you…. my last dollar….. Congress will NOT APPROPRIATE the funds ….. needed for additional staff…. doctors, nurses, etc., to make the V.A. function as it should for all our veterans.
5In case anybody is wondering….. these are the thoughts of some of the people involved……..THE VETERANS..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-soltz/where-do-vets-stand-on-sh_b_5365978.html
Interesting reading.
6The fault lies squarely on the folks who chose to fight a war for profit without sufficiently planning ahead for the obvious side effect: injuries.
Seriously, war on a credit card? Like, who didn’t see this coming back in 2003? Why not sell war bonds? Ramp up the VA budget BEFORE firing the fist shot? Ask Americans to sacrifice something & donate the cash to the VA instead. Nope. Bush told us to keep shopping.
I still blame Bush & Cheney for the majority of our VA issues. They failed our Veterans big time. I’m not saying Obama’s admin didn’t drop the ball too but, this isn’t a new issue. The VA’s been in trouble for years but the Iraq invasion by choice made it much, much worse.
McChrystal has no credibility. He needs to STHU & go away with all the other greedy war mongers.
7There are incompetents everywhere. Or as one of my friends said when I griped about care from a certain doctor, “Someone had to graduate at the bottom of the class.” [Shudder]
Money needs to go into training the staff and providing the treatment, equipment, and meds the vets need.
A couple of years ago, a friend of mine who’d just moved here from Nevada went to get a refill for his meds for TBI (traumatic brain injury). He’d been in the military since 1979 serving all over the world (Panama, Granada, various places in Africa). The doctor asked him when he was in Iraq. “I haven’t been to Iraq.” Then he was asked when he was in Afghanistan. “I wasn’t in Afghanistan.” Then he was told since he hadn’t been to Iraq or Afghanistan, he couldn’t have a TBI and his meds were not refilled.
I was furious when I heard. I asked if he’d bucked it up the chain of command, but he hadn’t. He wouldn’t let me do it, so I put in a complaint to the V.A. national site without naming him, but giving the details. They took a month to get back to me (for which they apologized profusely; it had gotten buried) but were quite concerned. My point to them was they couldn’t fix it if they didn’t know it was happening. It was an obvious education issue.
Eventually he got his meds. I don’t know how long he was without them. My friend got his TBI in Africa and has some permanent deficits from it, though they aren’t immediately noticeable.
Every vet who goes to the VA for treatment should be treated like a hero, not a liar, and definitely not as a second-class citizen. They gave up a lot for their country. Their country should do right by them.
Sorry about that. End of rant.
8I agree with all of your comments. No wars on credit cards, no allowing any vet to suffer because the VA is underfunded…alas, we have to depend on Congress to appropriate the necessary funds, Congress, full of chicken-hawk deficit ranters. It is shameful. My Senator Bernie Sanders, a flaming librul, is leading the charge for taking care of every vet. That makes me proud. Also my husband, a Vietnam vet gets all his medical care from the VA Hospital here in Vermont and we have been so impressed by their service and dedication. I realized we have a small population, but they get high marks from vets here.
9I have an email friend here who is a vet and has always gotten good service from VA. That’s about all I know, not having had veterans in the family ever. Oh I forgot. My relatives in (hold on) Gohmert’s district are very big patriots and military folks. I’m not saying anything else about that.
10Google APACHE II. This was originally supposed to be a helpful criteria as to who to triage first and what kind of quality of life was involved. However from what I can tell it turned out to be exceptionally flexible especially by VA hospital honchos who were dead set on getting costs down so they could look good in Washington. Remember also that every time a new honcho is assigned to a VA hospital to “clean it up”, the same crap comes out of his mouth. Its dollars over patients no matter what. Good doctors on board are prohibited from practicing good medicine because of the dollar thing and quality of life. The latter usually means old dudes, you know, the kind that fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Yes, Vets can go to any hospital of their choosing for treatment and the government will pay for it. Thats a good thing and should be pursued by all those veterans who need prompt medical help. Should we just shutter VA hospitals? Maybe not. Most regular civilian hospitals are not set up to deal with some of the most mind blowing damage of war to both the body and the psyche. Perhaps if the VA charter were changed to specifically concentrate on that, there just might be some hope, as long as those damn dollar minded medical and civilian chiefs of staff are farmed out to, oh say, a real live farm or ranch where they can’t pursue their passion.
11Perhaps it would be a good idea to actually let the investigation of the VA hospitals take place before we pass judgement on the administrators, doctors, etc.
I’m a Vietnam veteran, and my clinic is in the Phoenix Carl Hayden VA hospital, center of the controversy. I was as surprised as anyone when the accusations were made by numerous vets as to deaths being covered up by the VA.
I have been going to the Phoenix VA since 1994, when I moved to Arizona. I have had appointments every six months for the last 20 years. While my health has been generally good, I have had sigmoidoscopies and colonoscopies, as well as MRI and CAT scans for chest pains. In over 50 appointments I have never had to wait more than 10 minutes past my appointed time to see my personally selected doctor. My care at the VA has been better than any care I received prior to 1994. In 2009 I contracted MRSA (superbug) and the VA hospital arranged to have me receive treatment at the best hospital in the area (St. Joseph’s and Barrow Neurological Center).
If the administrators of the hospital actually kept separate lists, or covered up deaths, then this needs to be exposed. But I have a few questions which no one seems to be asking. Nobody is claiming that the veterans who died were refused medical treatment. Most are saying that they didn’t receive treatment in time. How many of those veterans were terminally ill? How many didn’t take medications they were supposed to? My neighbor is in the same clinic I’m in at Phoenix VA. He has over thirty bottles of pills, most unopened, most ignored. He needs a hip replacement, which the VA has agreed to do, but they can’t until he finishes a regimin to reduce his high thyroid and a cholesteral level over 300. Is this the VA’s fault, or is it his?
Doctor’s at the VA are frustrated. They are seriously understaffed. There are tens of thousands more veterans of the Gulf Wars, Iraq and Afghanistan that have been transferred to the VA system after their active service ended. But funding hasn’t followed, new doctors can’t be hired, new staff can’t be hired. Salaries are not commisserate with other doctors in the area. Equipment breaks down and there is no funding to replace or repair it. All of this probably contributes to delay in treatment for seriously ill veterans, although every veteran has an omsbudsman he/she can go to to break the bureaucratic log jams.
John McCain, who now is calling for Shinseki’s head, and lamenting the poor condition of the VA, voted only three months ago to reduce funding to the VA. But I don’t see anyone calling him out on his hypocrisy.
In short, most VA patients get good care. I would really like to know just what happened with the 40 reported deaths. But I would also like to hold off on condemning the VA administrators and personnel until an actual investigation has been conducted. There’s an awful lot of smoke right now. Maybe we should see if there’s a fire?
12Repubs Medicaid refusa’ls leave over 250,000 vets uninsured!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/21/1301016/-Republican-Medicaid-refusal-leaves-over-250-000-veterans-nbsp-uninsured
13Susan @8- The VA has an omsbudsman that any vet can use. You shouldn’t have had to put in a complaint. My guess is that his omsbudsman (in his local VA hospital) would have straightened the situation out quickly. Second, he should have gone to his doctor at the VA and explained his problem. He or she would have ordered the medication and he could have picked it up before leaving the hospital. I can’t believe that he was refused medication because he hadn’t been in Iraq or Afghanistan. He’d previously received that medication and it was in his electonic records. It didn’t make any difference which hospital he’d come from. If the doctor saw the previous prescription, he would have no reason not to have it refilled. As far as I know there is no requirement to have served in a particular theater to receive medication, only the doctor’s orders. Part of the problem was that you complained to the national VA site, and you didn’t identify the veteran. While that’s fine if you’re just filing a complaint, it wouldn’t specifically help your friend (lack of information).
I’m glad he received his meds. But here’s the thing. Every vet registering in the VA system receives a fairly large book explaining exactly what rights he has, what recourse he has to protest a decision, what benefits he is entitled to. Ninety-nine percent of all disputes are handled at the local level, not national. If his doctor refused to refill his prescription (and it would have to have been for some other reason than where he served; i.e. a medical decision) then he could have seen another doctor immediately.
14Been thinking hard on what to say about Cover Up Boy Stan that wouldn’t offend Mama to the nth degree. Knuckle dragging ring knocker McChrystal five words for you: Pat Tillman and Abu Ghraib. Until you can explain those two atrocities, maybe you should shut up and better spend your time contemplating your 0 for 2 war record, loser. The last thing any of us and the VA need is advice from a planning disaster like you.
15rwgate, first and foremost, thank you for your service! You obviously went into the war experience a solid individual, and despite injuries have full use of your mental capacities. Others, like SusanF’s friend, need a good friend like SusanF or family members to advocate for them. Many have trust issues for good reason, so no matter how good many of the folks in the VA system might be, navigating the system is a rough ride for them. Because of privacy issues, it’s not so easy for friends and family to seek the medical care their loved ones deserve.
Just a thought, but for those who need extra help, maybe the VA needs to add social workers to advocate for the more difficult situations. Veterans and the VA deserve more, not the GOP budget cuts.
Some really good information here on some of the issues: http://field-negro.blogspot.com/2014/05/a-fine-mess.html#.U31EN3a-arg
16I am 71, and because I arrived late in my parents’ lives, I had a father who was born in 1890 and served in WWI. That was the war after which the WWI veterans stormed Washington DC to try to get their just compensation, and were met with tanks and fire hoses.
17Daddy did not go to that rally although I often heard him comment sadly about the treatment of veterans. Then when he became ill, he went to the VA hospital in Shreveport where he was treated like dirt. We were finally able to get a diagosis and care at the Oschner Clinic in New Orleans, and care at Charity Hospital where the soft swishing of the nuns’ long skirts lulled a sleepy, tired little girl to sleep at night. It was a lonely, sad time and my father’s illness was related to his service. He was one of the men who helped build the laboratories at Camp American University ( Camp Leach ) in Washington, D.C. where this country was experimenting with bio and chemical weapons . . . . mustard gas and Lewisite among others. So, what’s new about our veterans not getting care? My father didn’t get care from the VA sixty years ago and it never has been any different.
Thank you, rwgate, both for your service and your comments. I have no VA stories — either good or bad — to share, but agree we should wait for the investigation. I also agree with others who question why Congress has seen fit to cut funding, and, yes, I blame the Bush administration for a total lack of planning. I guess all that oil we were supposed to get was going to pay all the bills. That and their estimate of the few days it would take to win.
18Sadly, the underfunding of the VA and other problems are not new. Before we throw out the good people working very hard to do what they can with what they’ve got, let’s make sure they have the funds and programs in place to do what we want them to do.
Firing a couple of generals won’t cure much. Proper funding and good programs will.
(For the record, my father was a PTSD sufferer from WWII and had government care until he died at 85 y.o., and two other relatives had excellent end-of-life care at the same age. There are some really great folks working there, making bricks without straw sometimes.)
19The VA has been mistreating vets for a long time. Plenty of WW2, Korean War and Vietnam era vets were shuttled around until they either gave up and died (like my father). Those who graduated at the bottom of their classes seem to gravitate to the VA, like the ones at the Dallas hospital who killed my mother in 1987. I’m a vet who left the service with problems. I refuse to go to the VA. Other posters here have had good experiences with medical care from the VA. I suspect they and their facilities are the exception.
20I suspect it’s about time for a roll call on how all these Loud moth Patriotic Congressvarmits have voted on funding the VA for, like, ever….I remember a moment during Bushy’s 2nd term with 2 wars going on on the old CC, hearing about massive VA cuts and just wondering how the HELL could that be happening. I agree, afore we get all up in the face of the current admins folks who were brought in to clean up a situation they inherited – Like getting rid of the good ole boys who were put in place at facilities long before they were a glimmer, lets lay the blame where it belongs, first and foremost – Congress – the Budget hawks that have used our Hero’s as Political pawns and only come out all outraged when they can use it against their opponent. They all should be bowing their heads in shame. RWGate, you need to get your voice out there -one of the big problems is that we constantly let the Rethugs control the discussion and the Language – please get your voice out there for true balance, and the possibility of actual change and not just blame and politics….
21Like a lot of other problems I suspect the cost of alleviating this one could be covered by the cost of a few less of those black plastic bombers we don’t really need or a handful of F-35 or 22 fighters. throw in a nuke powered missile or attack sub and we’d have money left over.Among the things I’ve learned watching conservatives over the years is that you can absolutely count on them to take the narrowest,shortest-sighted view of any issue. I’m a veteran entitled to VA healthcare .My main complaint is that I can’t get them to leave me alone.They’re always scheduling me for appointments and tests I’m not really sure I need.But then again I’m not a doctor so I just go along.
22Polite Kool Marxist@16- I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve talked to social workers at the Phoenix VA, and they tell me of the hundreds of cases assigned to each social worker, leaving them little time to do their jobs. Yet, the funds aren’t there to hire more people to help our veterans coming back from Afghanistan, and the casualties from Iraq. Right now the number of veterans committing suicide is appalling. The VA needs social workers, psychologists, psychiatrists to deal with the problems of traumatic war injuries and PTSD.
When I was in Vietnam, the standard tour was one year (even if you were a volunteer, like me). I knew there was going to be trouble when Bush started the stop-loss program during Iraq, and then started sending troops back for multiple tours of duty (some served as many eight tours). Obviously he or his commanding officers should have known better. As far as I am concerned his actions were criminal. But Iraq was a war they wanted to conduct on the cheap. Rumsfeld “you go to war with army you have, not the one you want” didn’t plan on the extended costs of repairing the troops. In Vietnam people died of injuries that most troops survive with today. But our system is still geared to Vietnam era casualties and the Republicans have fought long and hard to reduce funding for the VA. Just today, aid for TBI survivors was voted down in the Senate. In February, the Senate filibustered a bill increasing funding for medical care for the troops.
These people make me sick.
23rwgate@23 “These people make me sick.” I couldn’t agree more.
All the war profiteers need to be taxed to pay for the lives they have destroyed. DOJ needs to go all out RICO, starting with Cheney. Not just tax them; let’s strip them of the wealth they gained in their illegal war activities.
As for the military high command who lacked sufficient intestinal fortitude to place the welfare of the troops before their career ambitions, bust them back from the O-star rank to E-1, and let them try living on that pay. Yes, I mean you McChrystal and your fellow ring knockers who were too busy sucking up to take care of your troops. Multiple deployments, oh yeah, that was tough to predict the outcome.
Credit to Gen Shinseki for taking a thankless job rife with political morons, entrenched with career bureaucrats and a whole truckload of problems. He’s in there pitching for the troops, while tools like McChrystal and the idiot colonel Jake, Jack whoever (trust me, I actively try to forget his name and face) are pimping their next book on Fox noise or double dipping at the MIC teat.
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