Let’s Stop Talking Collusion
We’ve all heard it…hell, most of us have spoken it. We know it’s as true as our knowledge that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. The Russians worked to get Donald Trump elected to the most powerful office in the world. And he and his team colluded with them, and WikiLeaks, to do just that. And NOW, the worst president in the history of the United States is now infesting OUR White House, twitter raging from the toilet and binging on Fox Noise. Jesus, what a travesty.
But, I digress. As we all know, Mike Flynn, fired National Security Advisor and now confessed felon, flipped on Trump to save himself and his son from long sentences in federal prison. Where that goes can’t be good for whoever is left in the White House. But let’s look at what Mueller got Flynn to plead to, which is lying to the FBI. To me, this points to Mueller’s direction in this case, which is not collusion, which will be very tough to prove and prosecute, but to obstruction of justice. Trump’s spastic and ever-changing stories on Russia, Comey’s firing, Flynn’s firing, and his chaotic administration all point to Trump’s desperate attempt to lie his way out of this problem, but it’s not working. The more he lies, the more press he gets, but also the brighter the spotlight shines.
In his past life as a real estate promoter and game show host, Trump lied on a regular basis. He has not held to any normalized standard because he was only screwing his investors, his contractors, his game show contestants, and his banks. Now he’s screwing around on the world stage, and his conduct just simply won’t fly here. Because he’s a tool for the hard right conservatives in the congress they enable this abhorrent behavior. However, once Mueller and the FBI make their case, it will be virtually impossible to protect him.
I have been saying since the first moment of this train wreck, the Trump administration will not end well. Those who voted for him and still support him will have to explain to their grandkids why they did.
I think there is room for both accusations.
1Trump and republicans need to be accountable for both.
If the collusion with Russia is dropped, then why did they lie and obstruct justice?
How willl we fix the Russian interference in our election and our government if we ignore it?
No, I think the Russian interference is as important as the lying.
And we need to deal with both.
I think there is room for a lot of discussion on what Cheeto Smallhands is guilty of, but only that which can be proved in court will get him impeached.
2I take your point, Jefe, but I’m not holding my breath. The oligarchy who own the House and the Senate are quite happy the way things are going now, even happier after the Saturday debacle, so they have no reason to let Congress impeach the moron, except probably to humiliate him in the end, just to show him (and everyone else) who’s really in charge. So that will be amusing, but won’t do any of us any good.
3I am with Diane on this one.
4The morally bankrupt Repugs will not impeach Trump, no matter what charges Mueller proves. it will take a huge Democratic wave taking over both houses to get that job done. This 2018 election is vitally imprtant, so give and get out the vote.
5Trump epitomises all that is wrong with America.
The GOP core values are greed and intolerance.
6I think “what did he know and when did he know it” will be an impeachable offense. trump said he knew Flynn lied to FBI really there it is right?
7I am afraid that those who voted for him and still support him will not be ‘explaining’ anything to their grandkids as they will be too busy passing on the legacy of hate that drives them.
8Not impeachment, which is implausible given the current GOP pack. Rather the “the 25th amendment creates two paths by which presidents can be suspended from power, at least temporarily. Importantly, one of these paths allows the President to be suspended involuntarily, against his or her will.” https://tinyurl.com/y7bqq69z provides the details.
All the tax breaks for themselves and their big money supporters mean nothing if Toddler in Chief starts a nuclear war. He can do so, unchecked, in ~4 minutes, afaik. Preventing that catastrophe (and avoiding getting themselves and their kids incinerated) just *maybe* would push Rs on the 25/4 option. They have nothing to lose in that option anyway; Pence is the ultimate quiet liar and also a slick (as in slimy) politician who fits in perfectly with Mitch the turtle and his mob.
9Trump’s lawyer (the one who claims he wrote the tweet about Trump knowing Flynn lied to the FBI) is now saying that Trump can’t be charged with obstruction of justice because…wait for it…he’s the president and is above the law.
Didn’t we hear that before somewhere? Like from some guy named Richard something or other? How did that end up for him? Anybody remember?
10I, too, am with Diane on this. The collusion is central to the lying, and must not be forgotten. As Josh Marshall @ TPM pointed out early on, some things are not seen directly, but inferred by their effects. When people expose themselves to these kinds of risks (e.g., perjury conviction), it’s because are trying to hide something, exposure of which carries enormous consequences.
“When the president does it, that means it is not illegal” — Richard Nixon, to David Frost (1977). This was well after Nixon resigned, but few believed it then, either.
11What did Mickey Flynn deliver to Bob Mueller? It needs to be something on the order and magnitude of the tape mentioned in the Steele Dossier because Flynn is a problematic witness. Beyond being a convicted liar, he is a certifiable whack-o-bird released into the wild by the Obama administration for being crazy. Then there is more than a year of this whack-o-bird available on news film flying around the country with Donnie insanely flapping his gums and wings. Those are Flynn’s good points. Mueller also has a problem given the bargain of a plea deal scrubbing the bought and paid for label off Flynn.
Tapes. Perhaps. Flynn has demonstrated Nixon level paranoid delusions, so maybe he used his spook talents to accumulate information for his get out of jail free card. But shades of Nixon as a prime witness Flynn has more than a few Martha Mitchell level divots as a witness.
Buckle up Mr. Mueller!
12May 19, 1977: Nixon replied: “Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.”
December 4, 2017: John Dowd, attorney for Trump: “The president cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under (the Constitution’s Article II) and has every right to express his view of any case.”
Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nixon_Interviews
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-lawyer-president-cannot-obstruct-justice-n826231
13I’m no lawyer but I’ve heard another explanation for Mueller’s charge against Flynn: it’s a form of leash.
“Hello, Michael. I’m keeping a whole swath of stuff in my back pocket. There’s a kidnapping plan. And working for two national governments simultaneously — or actually working for only one while CLAIMING to work for another. Meetings with Russians and Turks which you then lied about. And that’s to say nothing of the conspiracies you engaged in [because ‘collusion’ is not a legal term.] So you’d better STAY bought. If you begin to balk, if you think you can dictate the terms of what you will and will not give up, you and Sonny Boy are both going down for a very long time.
“And no, don’t bank on Tweety Bird keeping you out of jail. He’s not going to keep HISOWNSELF safe — he’s certainly not going to be worrying about you. So there, there. You’ll be a good pet now, won’t you? Of course you will.”
14Now that the cons have the tax bill they have dreamed of – and can sink health care with the same bill – what do they even need Trump for?
15If the evidence becomes overwhelming enough, they can play “impeachment” and parade their virtue all day and still get whatever they need from Mr Mike.
The problem is the GOP cult, not Trump.
He’s just a useful dupe.
Also, two crows, there’s a bunch of stuff Mueller’s got hanging over Flynn’s head that can be tried in various State courts, where Tweety’s pardon machine can’t help him, since the pardons only work on Federal crimes.
16I don’t have a lot of hope for the grandkids.
17What the (already) revealed agreement reveals is that the entire Presidential Transition Team, possibly excepting Pence [Chairman of the PTT], knew, in real-time, that Flynn was talking to Kislyak — and had been directed to do so. These people [Priebus, McFarland, Bannon, Miller, …] were also telling the same lie from the time of Flynn’s conversations (between Christmas and New Years 2016) and Flynn’s dismissal. If Pence did not know, then he was unique — every major player reporting to him knew that Pence was lying or misinformed in his public denials of discussions/negotiations between the Trump team and Russia regarding sanctions.
This is no small thing.
The only question remaining is, who did that direction come from?
The list of candidates is very short: Flynn was essentially in charge of foreign relations. It seems unlikely that it wasn’t either Trump or Pence, and nearly impossible that neither knew.
18Word of warning: anyone who suggests quitting talking about collusion puts up red flags to me…because…why? Why quit talking about something important, which is the degree to which collusion with Russia, and with those influenced by Russia, turned our 2016 election into a travesty…and exactly how and why and under what circumstances individuals in power chose to join that comfortable little coterie of conspiracists? O hell no. We need to keep talking about it, until every single rat has been chased down, and every single rat-hole plugged.
I see the request to quit talking about collusion as an attempt to derail the most serious part of this mess and the discussion of it…and thus I look at the person making that request/demand/etc. and thinking “What’s in it for you? What do you not want picked apart and exposed to daylight? Yes, we’re all smart enough to understand that obstruction of justice is a real thing and a good hill to stand on to gain elevation for the next attack…but we’re also smart enough to know that ignoring traitors behind the lines while advancing is a lousy way to fight a war.
19Well, Nixon was never impeached, nor was the 25th Amendment ever invoked with him. But we got rid of him. Clinton was impeached, on a totally bullcrap charge. But he prevailed, and though he was limping badly through the last part, finished his term.
So, much as I’d love to see Trump undergo a richly-deserved indictment, trial, conviction, and incarceration, I’ll happily settle for just getting his worthless carcass OUT of the government! And as Mueller draws the net tighter and tighter, ensnaring more and more of his cohorts, I expect Donnie to bolt for the exit, probably citing a newly-discovered “medical condition”.
That will still leave us with Pence, a much subtler and capable adversary. But just calming down North Korea and getting some government positions filled should increase our odds of survival. Then we can continue to root out the traitorous nest of vipers that infests the White House.
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