I Dunno.
Y’all, is extremely careless a better word than criminal? At least you can prove you’re not a criminal.
Federal investigators did not find evidence of intentional wrongdoing, he said — but there is evidence the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee and her staff were “extremely careless” during her tenure as secretary of state.
Maybe it’s just too hot here and I’m a little sweaty, but this does not seem like good news to me.
Talk me down. Or not.
Unusual choice of words, “extremely careless” in regards to a private e-mail server. Those are words I’d reserve for a Congress that arbitrarily makes budget cuts via ‘sequestration.’
Or, in plain terms, “oops, no money for embassy security.” Or, “oops, no money to upgrade government server systems,” where so many hacks have occurred. Or, “oops, plenty of time & money to ‘investigate’ Benghazi, Hilz’ e-mails and Planned Parenthood,” but no time to discuss and vote on the AUMF (authorization of use of military force), budgets or eliminating the terrorist loopholes in gun legislation.
The Feebs wants to toss around “extremely careless”???! Really? Maybe they should toss those words to Congress to explain how two certifiable idiots had weapons in Charleston, SC and Orlando, FL mass shootings.
Words do have meaning, but apparently NOT in DeeCee or Director Comey’s world.
1not as clean as I wanted it to be…….but compared to the dump, and I await all the legal crap he has done…….no one gets this high with clean hands……and didn’t congress people use the same thing? Time to check out those jugheads……I remain hopeful.
2Coulda, woulda, shoulda, mighta, maybe. Meh!
3Our leadership at all levels lacks one very important feature: credibility. From city council members to presidential candidates, the main thing missing is the confidence that they can be trusted. Police can’t be trusted. Leadership can’t be trusted. Military can’t be trusted. Businesses can’t be trusted.
4Clinton can’t be trusted. Trump can’t be trusted.
There is nobody worth voting for.
No indictment. You can get off the ledge and come back inside now, JJ.
5We don’t really have another winnable choice but these Clinton shenanigans and others in the past are exactly why I voted for Sanders in the primary. Bad choices by her make bad choices for us. I was pretty sure there was almost a zero chance they’d find anything criminal in the email fiasco but fact it happened at all is maddening. It exudes a sense of privilege I find rather distasteful. But, yeah, I’ll hold my nose and pull the lever.
6JJ, the FBI does not recommend indictment.
7The FBI states that no reasonable prosecutor would indict.
Various news sites and Republican pols will spin the “extremely careless” words, but to me, what has been said is “they exceeded the 70 mph speed limit several times, and they also drove home from that party, where they had wine, and that was reckless and careless.
Bernie’s last hope is squashed.
“Do you want an ‘extremely careless’ person in charge of our foreign policy” will be the Republican pitch.
Against Trump I really don’t think it will work.
Let’s hope for the best
So, the time has come for the worm to turn. The next time a Trump or any Congressperson wants to criticize the State Department’s handling of emails, please just demand they release all their emails for the last five years or shut up, let the world and the FBI review them, then let’s see if any of the accusers have ever been careless.
8If Clinton was not involved at all, wingnuts would still claim they have a smoking gun on her. They will want to impeach her because they are sure she has committed some offense somewhere.
9The key concept for the campaign is nothing illegal.
Carelessness, and any putative extremity-level of that carelessness, are subjective assessments in the eye of the beholder. We have no other systems within the government subjected to this level of FBI scrutiny, so we have no way of knowing if the level of care exhibited within State is better, worse or equal to other Administrations’ State Departments, or of other departments within this Administration (Edit: I spoke too soon: apparently we do, and the level of the State Department’s handling of sensitive info as a whole is not up to other agencies’ snuff, per Comey, “The FBI found evidence that the security culture at the State Department was “generally lacking in the kind of care for classified information found elsewhere in the government,”)
Carelessness as a talking point cannot be spun up, and will not hurt the campaign like an indictment would have.
Carelessness CAN be spun vis-a-vis Trump’s fund raising campaign, which CONTINUES to (illegally) solicit foreign politicians and other citizens of NOT the United States, despite the fact that it was called out last week.
The nicest spin that can be put on that is “carelessness” which HAS led to illegal activity, and may in fact have led to more. Josh Marshall is reporting over at TPM that at least one PM in Australia is still receiving not only Trump campaign solicitations, but also a Trump-related SuperPAC solicitation, as well.
Prima facie, this bespeaks illegal coordination between the campaign and the SuperPAC.
So, really, worry over the State Department computer network configuration and message handling protocols is not even the most egregious example of “carelessness” in this campaign, in this week.
It is, however, the least illegal.
10Perhaps O/T but I have always wondered why there was so much controversy over what emails were deleted, what emails were not turned over, etc. Given that we know from the Snowden releases that the NSA has collected each and every email sent from anywhere in the US (and probably worldwide), why didn’t Congress go to the NSA and tell them to hand over copies of every email sent to or from Clinton’s private server?
Then there would have been no possibility that the “evidence” was “cooked” in some fashion or other.
Just wondering…
11Excuse me… but where was government oversight in this whole affair? If the Feds insisted, for security, reasons that a government server must be used, we would not now be having this discussion. But, apparently, the Sec of State can just say “I don’t wanna.” and our national security apparatus folds like a cheap umbrella. Either we have national security or we don’t. And if goverment officials can so easily bypass security standards, then we really don’t have national security at all.
12Okay, here’s the deal. I stayed out of the primary. I enjoy fighting Republicans, not other Democrats. I am a Joe Biden fan. I also love Elizabeth Warren and hope to see her in the White House soon. I will support and vote for Hillary. However, that still gives me cringing-rights. The term “extremely careless” made me cringe. Bill’s behavior in the Oval Office with an intern also made me cringe. The Clintons make me cringe a lot.
It seems that both Bill and Hillary hand the Republicans prime opportunities to be the vast right wing conspiracy. I just wish they would stop it. Sometimes I wonder if they are addicted to the drama.
13I get your cringing, JJ. Now… imagine how much you’ll cringe with President Trump.
I’ll accept “extremely careless” when they prove to me national security has been compromised. Not “conceptually” but in reality.
But, yes… what she did was stupid. Because, I’ve heard she didn’t want to use two phones. Okay. But either we have security guidelines that are followed or we don’t. Her behavior was wrong. But she had alot of enablers surrounding her. THAT bothers me more than anything.
14I’ve never understood from day one why anyone seems to think they would have much of a chance to read ANY SecState’s e-mail. Would sure seem like almost all of it would be confidential at least.
15Wow JJ, I haven’t heard anyone talk about Joe in a while. I don’t blame him for not running after all he’s been through, but I sure was disappointed. Quick story. A few months ago, while talking to conservative friend, I mentioned liking Joe rather than Hillary myself, and his demeanor changed completely. I don’t doubt that there’s a sexiest element to it, but there’s no doubt that repugnicans have had her in their sights for twenty years. And they haven’t wasted them. But I think Joe is viewed a lot more favorably by everyone. And therefore more electable. Oh well, we’ll do the best with what we’ve got.
16Speaking personally, I believe it is the vast right wing conspiracy that is addicted to drama. They made a mountain out of oral sex, at the same time covering for their own peccadilloes. They lowered the impeachment bar to snag Billary,and then refused to even examine dumbass dubya’s impeachable offenses.
Wingnuts ahave tried and failed for thirty years to destroy the Clintons and have failed pretty miserably most every step of the way.
My constitution does not say treat everyone equally unless you are the Clintons. Imagine if all that money wasted over all these years had been spent on the infrastructure.
17Comey made it clear that the FBi did not find any evidence of treason which is the top criteria in such situations. Then he proceeded to sound just like my mother.
18Was attacking Iraq “extremely careless”? How about not funding the embassies? Zika funding anyone? Is that extremely careless, or criminally stupid? Inquiring minds….
19Juanita Jean Herownself, there were reasons some of us voted for “No Drama” Obama twice. While a certain amount of the drama that surrounds the Clintons is snacilbupeR fabrication, they do generate a touch of their own with seeming easy lobs to the snacilbupeR scandal machine. My Granddaddy says some Democrats never learned from the Gary Hart experience aka his challenge to the media to discover the Monkey Business.
20A whole lot of people have shot other people, sometimes fatally, and they seem to get away with no charges as long as they were just “extremely careless,” like Cheney, so why not give Clinton a pass too?
And yes, JJ, I could wish for another candidate, but this is the one we’ve got. And they’ve both had big GOP targets on their backs for decades, which would make anybody irritable.
21Comey is a registered R and supported McCain and RMoney. I think he’s just madder than forty wet hens that there is nothing of substance there to take down Hillary so he’s just spewing his sour grapes for everyone to see, hoping that will do the trick. It all smacks of R desperation to me.
I’m sure it has been tiresome for Hillary to watch every little step she has made since she became a public figure, but that’s what you have to do. You can’t give the vultures even a whiff of a possibility of meat. She should have learned that by now. She was not my first choice but I will vote for her because the alternative is just to horrible to contemplate and I remember too well the fiasco that brought us Gee Duhbya.
22Most of the GOP hatred of the Clintons stems from the fact that his presidency was so successful, compared to the Republican presidents, both pre and post. Bush sent them down the toilet and they have been trying to claw their way out since. Their only strategy, it seems, is continue the conspiracy tactic even though it hasn’t worked and will continue to not work. With Drumpf, it’s as if somebody just flushed and they are right back down where they started.
23Ray in Jerrytown sees privilege and Jorge sees lack of trustworthiness. I see a defensiveness born of decades of being the target of continuous mudslinging.
24I love No Drama Obama, but everyone concerned here is a human, and therefore fallible. Every candidate will make mistakes. Them’s the breaks. I can live with that.
Yes, the R’s will howl, but they did that through 8 nothingburger Benghazi investigations. In contrast, Hillary doesn’t casually retweet white supremacist memes and graphics or make policy proposals based on airy nothings. I’m sticking with the reality-based candidate.
I’m going to go on the record as saying that I think Hillary Clinton is a superb candidate.
Her experience on both domestic and foreign issues are superior to just about any candidate we’ve had in many decades.
She seems to have the temperament to handle adversity with both grace and bad-assery–as witness the Benghazi hearings and 25+ years of Republican smears. (Remember how Kerry got swift-boated; Hillary won’t.)
She has devoted her life to public service. Yes, she is a politician and she does compromise, but I’ve seen no evidence of graft or extremism.
She is more hawkish than I personally like, but any woman who wasn’t would be not the candidate ’cause she’d be dismissed as a mushy sentimentalist who couldn’t keep the country safe.
As for the emails, guys, she didn’t set up the system herself. She relied on others and they didn’t do as good a job as they should. They did do a reasonably good job, though, so I don’t see how this is a black-or-white issue. She could have done better, but she didn’t fail massively either.
In closing, I do not think Clinton is perfect, but I have never expected that from any person and certainly not from a politician. Even Sanders has his flaws and Trump is mostly flaws.
25Thank you, Lynn. I’m back off the edge.
26I cringe, but what is the alternative?
I feel that Trump is a direct threat to my country.
I Can imagine him starting WW3.
Either by hubris, a fit of anger or stupidity. Encouraged by other Republican morons.
And did Colin Powell and C Rice do the exact thing?
How about all the secret meeting Cheney had with oil executives? And who knows else?
Not a clue about what was discussed or promised.
And don’t get me started about the lies about the Iraq war. Even Great Britian is looking at Tony Blair for the lies that were told.
27Let’s see:
Multiple congressional hearings on the Benghazi disaster have determined that Sec. Clinton was careless with her email. Or something.
In this political climate. the Teahadists are always going to be brazen, crude, and ruthlessly hackish. Clearly the FBI director wanted to go that way too, but had a shred of professionalism holding him back.
Now let’s get back to ignoring the increasing payments on State Dept. overseas installation security, and being unable to find ways to make uncrackable communications available to senior Executive Branch officials…
28I wish as Sec State Hilary had simply gone along with the email system State provided.
OTOH since the snacilbupeR have spent the past 25ish years vetting her for the Presidency, I guess this is just one more hurdle to cross for January 20, 2017.
29LynnN and Diane:
Exactamundo!
30Hillary, IMHO, missed a huge opportunity. She should have said (again, IMO) “State Department servers were hacked; mine was not.”
31Ditto Lunargent.
32And I agree with a lot of what has been said here. I’m a Hillary supporter, too.
But I can’t say anything any better than what’s been said here, so I want to make another observation. Until today I had never heard (or read) the expression “nothing burger.” But now I have seen it no fewer than a dozen times on various comment sites.
Just thought I would mention it. One learns many things at the Beauty Shop.
Bad choices? What, did HRC choose not to kill Vince Foster?
33Was it her fault that Jim MacDougal turned out to be mentally unstable and a crook?
Was Bill’s philandering HRC’s choice?
Did HRC choose to stain that “blue dress?”
Did HRC choose to tell the truth under oath?
http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/meet-the-judge-who-gives-ken-starr-everything-he-wants/article_d156d867-8067-5185-beea-71abb43a3146.html
This is a long read and shows just a part of the vast right wing conspiracy HRC spoke of. We know who committed crimes during White Water investigation and it wasn’t the Clintons.
34Were all the people who sent her mail “extremely careless” to send it to her private server?
Were the previous Secretaries of State who did the same thing “extremely careless” as well?
Scratch down a bit and you’re likely to find a Hillary hater, methinks.
35Right on, Kate Dungan. Let us not forget that the practice started well before she got there and there must have been good reason for her to continue it.
36Also, regarding the FBI Director’s lecture, don’t forget that the FBI leans pretty far right. I grew up with an FBI uncle who tried to disparage Martin Luther King and every civil rights leader, not to mention Democratic presidents. The FBI mindset is very conservative and probably includes a lot of Clinton haters.
So when the RKlan complain that the system is rigged, there is some truth to it, but it’s actually rigged in their favor.
I mentioned in a previous post the Hillary’s server wasn’t hacked but State’s has been. That is a very important point. Previous Sec States also used private servers probably for the same reason. I don’t remember hearing that the previous Sec State were investigated or even questioned.
37FRAUD! I want all our taxpayer dollars back that were wasted by Ken the porno Starr, Trey even the WMDBS cannot help him Gowdy, Jason the punter Chaffetz, Dimwit Darryl Issa and every dime Marsh the moron Blackburn plans to waste chasing down Planned Parenthood with the false allegation her criminally st00pid constituents want to waste in supporting the criminals who violated so many laws producing the doctored PP tapes.
And, while I am seeking refunds, Dubya and Darth Cheney need to give up their war profits, then proceed straight ahead to The Hague.
No, Charles and David, I didn’t forget you two tax and environmental criminals. You can pay back your share with a healthy death penalty tax.
BTW, Donnie, Hilz has volunteered years of her tax returns. When can we expect you to share a few years of the taxes you didn’t pay and the ‘charitable’ contributions you never gave?
38LynnN wins my Internet today. That is an excelent answer to why Hillary is the best candidate. If she was a man, it would all be null and void. As much as I want her to be president, I dread the next 4 or 8 years of constant nagging about her. I think she will get double everything that President Obama has endured. The way Coomey chose to write his report sounds like he’s upset he couldn’t find anything.
39Hhgfd
40(Sorry. I’m having computer problems.)
41What LynnN said, word for word. I think Hillary will make one of the best presidents the USA has ever had.
I’m just an ordinary person, but if a very large, but loosely organized collection of people who deeply hated me spent a quarter century and millions of dollars trying to make me look bad, I’d be universally regarded as dog crap. Without a doubt.
I don’t buy 99% of what’s been said about her and I think Hillary is very trustworthy, plus more liberalat heart than is generally known.
GO HILLARY!!!!!!!!!!
42Her server was not hacked. They could not find any evidence that it was. Other government servers were hacked over a period of time. Remember Snowden? Assange? The State Department spokesman I saw on TV yesterday frankly admitted to a very loose “culture” in the department that existed long before Hillz set foot in it. That means Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice time. To charge Hilz with either a crime or a misdemeanor would mean hauling in her predecessors for the third degree, and considering who they are, this country really does not need a flame and gunfire reaction Baltimore style. As for Trump’s reaction, his bacon is getting ever much closer to the fire. Here’s guy who could go up in legal and police flames at any time over long existent issues unresolved to this day. Not just lawsuits for his shoddy, shady, sloppy business style. Lately I’ve been hearing about suppressed rape charges that are old enough to vote let alone be resolved. And god knows I don’t want Trump anywhere near the reins of power as I am damn sure considering what he has already spewed that he would bury the Constitution and reinstate slavery. Yes, ma’am. I know I said that. There are things about this guy I don’t trust but that last one is so totally in his nature so I can trust him to go after it.
43“Her server was not hacked”? I don’t know where that one came from.
Just yesterday, WikiLeaks just released 1800 emails that were hacked from her server. Julian Assange has promised that there are many, many more to come.
This is an obvious case of double standards when it comes to the handling of classified information. One standard for Edward Snowden and whistleblowers like him, and an entirely different standard for Hillary Clinton. As Eric Zeusse noted yesterday, there was clear evidence that she had violated at least six felony statutes, and quite intentionally in some cases, “with purpose of evasion.”
I’m sorry, but if Edward Snowden is to go to jail, if Chelsea Manning is to stay in jail, so should Hillary. Otherwise, there is no rule of law – at least for the rich and privileged. If Loretta Lynch is kept on as AG after Hillary takes office, you will know that there was a quid pro quo at worst, or a lack of concern for an appearance of propriety at best. Either way, it only confirms that the United States is descending into a third-world standard of justice.
44Scott, If the right-leaning FBI could not drum up charges, then your sources are suspect. You are obviously fighting the case for Snowden, but Hillary is not it. I sense an agenda.
45Scott Bidstrup, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts Wikileaks released emails “hacked” via a FOIA request that resulted in the publication of 30,000 emails.
That FOIA ruling was made LAST MAY, and there were 14 releases of the emails over time, as they were processed to ensure they were suitable for public release, with the last of them being released in February.
Wikileaks dumped all 30k online a few months ago, and has been “releasing” curated collections of emails, in other words, repackaging the same information.
“Hacked.” Forsooth!
Confirmation Bias: It’s not just a river in Republican Egypt, anymore.
46Honey, “extremely careless” is what happens when you’re busy and let the five year old pour milk from a gallon jug. Or what happens when the one year old fiddles around with the cell phone and takes a selfie and mails it to Grandma, who is just glad the parents weren’t in the middle of something she’d rather not see. THAT’S extremely careless. Try letting the FBI use the computer (hardware, software, and the 14 year old grandson) to deal with information not at all needed by Iran or China or the house keeper, for that matter, even if the kid finds it hilarious. If Hillary doesn’t know what’s what, nobody does.
47In 2012, the BBC gave five good reasons to still use a typewriter. Hmmm.
48I gotta start reading JUANITA JEAN’S earlier in the day. Nobody is going to get this far. Hard to believe it’s July 6….
49Y’all have a good night.
And besides I change my mind every day about whether to vote for Hillary or Bernie. My husband finally had a fit and said I DON’T WANT HILLARY TO LOSE. WE ARE VOTING FOR HER. I will say, anyone who gets as far as the presidency isn’t wired like the rest of us. Why in the world would any person put him/herself in the position of the president of the USA?
50Now I”ll hush and be quiet.