Forgiveness and Redemption
Theologians tell us that God forgives and forgives absolutely. It has taken a lifetime to understand that what they are talking about is really redemption and not forgiveness. Forgiveness is really a human condition. It means we simply drop those negative feelings and move on. That has always been the secret. Forgiveness is more about us than it is about them. We don’t allow that anger and pain to consume us. Yet, it doesn’t mean that the relationship returns to normal or even at all.
Redemption, on the other hand, is a return of the relationship. That’s what the theologians call forgiveness from God. The slate is wiped clean and all transgressions are forgotten. Most of us aren’t capable of that. We have to protect our psyche and someone that repeatedly runs roughshod over our psyche cannot return to the previous condition. We can leave the pain behind and refuse to allow that person’s actions to occupy our thoughts. We can’t treat them the same way as before though.
This is where racism, xenophobia, sexism, and homophobia comes in. It is where the Q nonsense comes in. It is where the anti-vax nonsense comes in. This topic is the one topic that ties it all together. Yesterday, we looked at conservative social media and whether they could have a safe space to spew their hatred. There’s a reason why they want and need that safe space. When we shun that kind of thought we don’t get rid of it. We just drive it underground where it can’t readily be seen.
The question comes on whether someone can let their hate flag fly and then later live to regret it. If they do then is there a path back to redemption for them? We have seen numerous people recant their feelings on the vaccine once they’ve landed in the hospital. Should they survive, can they be forgiven and can they be redeemed? They can be forgiven relatively easily, but that doesn’t mean they are redeemed.
It comes down to recognizing windows of opportunity. Hundreds if not thousands of anti-vaxxers and Q devotees are realizing that they backed the wrong horse. They realize they were lied to. They realize they were duped. The question comes on whether we are capable of extending the olive branch to welcome them back to normal society.
The same is true of racists, homophobes, sexists, and xenophobes. There is that key moment where everything comes tumbling down. I say this because I’ve experienced it myself. Those feelings were more private because I knew they were wrong. I was able to cast them aside and be welcomed in. However, I have to admit that I had not gone out on a limb to make an ass out of myself either.
That’s how I know there are a lot of these folks out there. They feel the way they do, but they are too polite and even too ashamed to be publicly outed. Without a path to redemption they have to stay in that space. They exist in the shadows between everything we know that is good and everything we know that isn’t. It’s the main reason why we are left wondering how some of our elected officials get where they are in the first place.
There is something within ourselves that doesn’t allow us to redeem. In ourselves it is obvious that shame overwhelms us. In others, it is anger and jealousy of a former scourge getting credit for their conversion. For others, it is a lack of trust that the conversion is real. We’ve been burned before. We have to take that chance. Otherwise, it will always be us versus them.
Well put, Nick.
1First they repent. THEN we forgive
2I know from personal experience that the vast majority of people I have forgiven in my life have never repented or sought absolution. The forgiveness is for me and not for them. It cleanses me whether they are aware of it or not. That is the key distinction between forgiveness and redemption. These people are not redeemed in my eyes. They simply don’t exist in my head space. They aren’t living rent free in there anymore.
As far as redemption goes I absolutely agree. One must admit their culpability before they can be cleansed. In order to see lasting change we have to see a desire to change. The point is that there needs to be a pathway to change and gain acceptance. They still have to walk it, but there can’t be excessive road blocks.
3The way I’ve dealt with these people in my mind is akin to encountering dog poop on the sidewalk; I see it’s there, walk around it and continue on.
4I do believe that people can recognize they have taken the wrong path and will change their course. I think we’ve all been there. The question is whether these hospital bed regrets will carry forth after they get home, or will they tune in to the same hate radio and TV stations they listened to before. I’ve read several studies that show that the media outlets people follow affect behavior and thinking. As long as people consume poison on the airwaves and internet, we will have to contend with hate and bad judgment. I’m absolutely happy to welcome with open arms those who walk a new walk. But the walk is what counts.
5The distinction between forgiveness and redemption makes some sense.
For some, forgiveness is given as a gracious offering, prior to any signs of redemption. Others hold back, waiting for a sufficient “sign” of redemption in the offender before offering forgiveness. Even then, some remain leery and observant for signs of violation.
But why do people “convert” or turn around from violations, from abandoning their original set of beliefs and actions and move to a new orientation? It _may_ come from an internal contradiction, one that arises in the individual. More often, it comes from interaction with someone able to look beyond the offense and continue to accept the offender. Allowing separation between the MAGA community and the rest of us diminishes the chance of change.
6I was repeatedly raped by various (male) family members, none of whom even admitted it happened. I have forgiven them so that I can be healthy and move on. Most are dead now but I have no idea nor desire to know if any of the them have repented. But I will not be near any of them, especially the one who tried to molest me when he was over 50, not in anger or lack of forgiveness, but to keep myself safe. To forgive does not mean to put oneself back into danger. Nick has it right that there is a huge difference between forgiving and reestablishing a relationship, especially a toxic one.
I know this is a different topic in a way, but I want others in my situation to be supported in a search for forgiveness that includes staying safe.
7rapesurvivor @ 6,
I have been where you have been. I am glad that you have forgiven and found peace of mind.
Sorry, I can never forgive the person who did this to me for 6 years of my life, or my mother who never believed me,or my siblings who shunned me or the police who labeled me (I was nine years old at the time) as liar and a clever little girl who seduced men. God will have to forgive them, because I will not.
8That’s such a painful example Rape Survivor, but an excellent one. No one would want anyone to put themselves back in harm’s way. Another way of saying it is to simply say we can forgive without forgetting. We can remember the negative events in order to remind ourselves to remain safe without reliving the negative emotions that came with it.
9Dealing with molestation by family members, my family doctor had this wisdom to impart. you can forgive the “why” but not the “what”. That has worked for me, I can see why my molester ended up that way and that I can forgive. He never admitted to anything even after I confronted him, so the “what” remains.
10Nick prescribes a foolish and dangerous path, based on a religion rife with contradictions. Where’s the redemption in Hell?
I’ll take Confucius or Buddha, far better expositors of social and state responsibilities.
I’m just a ferryboatman myself, but you may not have a fire on my ferryboat…
11Before redemption, there must be atonement. Charlie Brown can forgive Lucy, but she needs to stop pulling the football away in order to be redeemed.
12Believe it or not, while I mentioned theology and God, my thoughts on forgiveness weren’t really there Ormond. To grossly simplify things I’d simply say forgiveness is for me and redemption is for you.
I think Msb has it on the head. I like the Charlie Brown analogy. Charlie Brown can forgive Lucy and simply avoid that situation. If Lucy pulls the football enough then she can’t really be redeemed in Brown’s eyes. The idea of forgiveness is that he can forget about Lucy and live his life without the pain of her transgressions. Forgiveness means he doesn’t have to return to the state of missing the football. He’ll just stop obsessing over it.
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