Democrat thy name is Pollyanna
Conservatives have one super power and one major weakness. Progressives have one super power and one major weakness. Every election cycle sees the collision of these strengths and these weaknesses. We saw both flare up during that fateful debate and we continue to see it in the aftermath. The sad truth is that the Democratic party has placed themselves in a no win scenario of their own making.
Republicans can craft a narrative and they have the discipline to stay on that narrative. That is their superpower. Whether that narrative has any truth to it, whether it is raging hypocrisy, or whether it ignores large swaths of truth doesn’t matter. Of course, we are seeing their weakness in full display here in Texas. They couldn’t govern a two car funeral. Yet, I digress.
The whole business about Joe Biden and Ukraine early on in the Trump presidency was a test balloon. Trump was able to paint Hillary Clinton as corrupt and right or wrong that label stuck. So maybe he could paint Biden as corrupt. Obviously that has never worked. He continues to try to fight a two-front war but the vast majority of people don’t see Biden as corrupt. They do see him as old and that is the other plank they have fought on. Watching conservatives fight on both fronts is maddening. One cannot be a criminal mastermind and senile at the same time. I suspect deep down inside they know this, but they almost see it as an insult buffet. You take your pick.
As Democrats/progressives we do one thing really well. We govern. When we are in charge things get done. Legislation passes and people in control do the things day to day that need to be done for things to run smoothly. The economy starts humming and people get the services they need. When polled without labels, people routinely favor what Democrats and progressives do and what they call for. That is our superpower. When we look back at these last three and a half years we see a ton of good in the Biden presidency.
Our weakness is that we care what people think. If you think back to every major progressive achievement, you see we have spent far too much time and energy asking people that will never support it to weigh in. We lost a public option in the Affordable Care Act that way. Now, we see ourselves at the precipice of a national crisis. We see a collision of the GOP strength (discipline in messaging) matched squarely against our weakness (we care what others think). What is one to do?
We blew this one folks. Joe Biden should always have been a one term president. A successor should have been groomed (the positive meaning of that word) and introduced to the public long before now. At this point it doesn’t even particularly matter if he is capable of doing the job for another four years. Politics and reality are at best estranged lovers. What we shouldn’t do is worry about the 40 percent that will vote Trump religiously. Those folks won’t vote for anyone you put up. The key now is the other 60 percent.
Yet again, this is where we burn ourselves. We worry about the narrative.Kamala Harris is too liberal and too abrasive. Gavin Newsom is too California and California is a hell hole. Bernie and Elizabeth are too old and too extreme. Secretary Pete is just too gay. Remember, these are all things the 40 percent will say and they are the folks that would never vote for them anyway. I personally don’t care what they say. I say let’s ask the 60 percent.
Anyone you put up at this point will have about a week or two where they are the darling. Then, the right wing noise machine when craft a new message and start chipping away. That’s the way these things work. So, as hard as it is we have to dial out the noise. We cannot listen to people that won’t vote for anyone we put up. This is all about people that might support the cause. Who are they more likely to support? The clock is ticking.
Nick: Nice to hear from you again. Missed your inputs. Caring what good people think about you is a good thing. Caring about what idiots that hate me and want I stand for ain’t a good thing.
1Dems are in a tough spot. There was no active grooming of a leader. It was put all-in on Biden and the debate showed his shortcomings. I will still back him because it would take a miracle to get a new candidate up and going. Ugh.
2Thank God.
3After telling honestly what I think (https://juanitajean.com/competence-in-government/#comments) I was kinda holding my breath – shall I be kicked out of The Salon? But now, you are saying basically the same thing Nick. At least I wont be alone, out in the cold:)
George Clooney says it loud and clear:
4https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/10/opinion/joe-biden-democratic-nominee.html
Republicans stay on message? You mean the party in Michigan that is in court over who the chairman is? Or the Freedom Caucus that just expelled members for ideological unsoundness?
The 2024 Republican Party looks more like the 1930s-
5’40s American Communist Party with its purges of Lovestoneites, Trotskyites and independents like Bella Dodd.
The time change candidates has long past. The time to groom the next big thing has long past. Why is Biden our candidate? Primarily because he’s done such a damned good job at Presidenting. Need proof that Dems are as stupid and gullible as MAGAs? Look at the ones swallowing the “he’s too old” lie. Need proof that Dems are just as authoritarian as MAGAs? Look at the party “elites” that are telling all the Biden voters to shut up, sit down, and do what your betters tell you to do.
Biden is the candidate. Stop wringing your hands and start pushing back on the lies!
6All I can do is vote, and I will vote for anyone the Democrats put up, even a turnip, to avoid Trump. Also folks, remember to vote down ballot – without the Senate/House, not much will get done for us!
7If there actually WAS a way to give Biden’s delegates — and campaign chest — to ANYONE ELSE — putting up another candidate would be a reasonable thing to talk about. But there aren’t ways to transfer delegates, or campaign cash. So …
8One thing I’ve noticed with my Republican Sister With A Masters Degree, she doesn’t recognize that politics is complicated with gray areas. She sees black or white, good or bad.
Except as you pointed out Nick, when she’s presented with the choices on Fox News Insult Buffet, she’s happy to accept Biden is both a mastermind and senile.
9FrauFree,
I’m not 100 percent sold on anything. Basically what I’m saying is we need to be careful of whose narrative we are serving here. I always saw Biden as a placeholder and felt like that is what was being sold to us. Maybe I misread that. Either way the Dems either need to make a change or let loose the hounds of war and stop the handwringing. The MSM obviously is not on the level here so we have to do our own heavy lifting.
10I’m a horsewoman, and changing horses in midstream is never a good idea.
On top of that, I’ve been acquainted with Joe Biden since 1977 when I was a freshman at the University of Delaware and he came to speak at a poli-sci class. Later, I was the treasurer of Young Democrats of Delaware and I worked on his 1988 presidential campaign.
Nick, I agree with you – I thought we were told he’d be a bridge. Delaware’s Democratic primary isn’t until September 10. That will be interesting.
Regardless, I will vote D no matter who is on the ticket!
https://boingboing.net/2024/07/10/impacts-of-the-presidential-debate-far-overestimated.html
11I commented on a WMDBS article at least a couple years ago that I was relieved that Joe Biden beat trumpf because he was a good, decent, honest, experienced Democrat that would do a great job. He’s proven that. But I also commented that it was time to start building up a younger charismatic energetic leader (like Obama) to beat trumpf or any repugnantican candidate in 2024 and the future. I wish Joe had led that charge when he could. Now it’s too late. Unless Biden has more brain farts like he did at the debate, he’ll be our candidate. In Jeff Tiedrich’s piece today, he’s hoping there won’t be a second or third bad 90 minutes. Tomorrow’s press conference will be another chance with Joe in front of the media that are licking their chops to burn him.
12Bottom line, Democrats in charge of spending the money on messaging need to be relentless in tearing down trumpf and getting that 60% to at least vote against him. My fingers are crossed we don’t have another bad 90 minutes
Grandma Ada@5 – of course I will vote for D too, even if the turnip happens to be on the top of the ticket.
But I find it really, really sad that America has become to the point where both democrats and republicans (NB! I’m not talking about MAGAts) would vote for anybody or anything, even for turnips, just NOT to cross party lines.
13I personally know several republicans, who actually hate Trump, but will still vote for him. Because they hate Biden more. Gone are the good old days when voting was about being FOR someone, not AGAINST.
The way I see it, you vote for whoever the Democratic candidates are, or you vote for fascism, the face of which is currently Trump, but I’m sure others would be happy to wear that mantle should Trump become totally incapacitated or dead. Facist is what the current Republican party has become. I have to wonder if those Trump-hating Republicans are ready to live in a facist America. The thought scares the bejesus out of me.
14While I recall comments when Biden was campaigning in 2020 about prospects for two terms of such a late starter, I do not recall anyone — certainly not Biden — saying he was going to be a one-term president.
The man has never lost an election. I think he knows something about it.
And while it is very well to call for a younger leader, who? Have Democrats forgotten how deeply the younger possibilities differed from one another? There’s a lot of difference between Jayapal and Whitmer.
Biden’s big point in the party was 50 years of not being divisive.
I’ve been thinking about the Republicans. They haven’t been this divided since ’52 and the very bitter Taft-Eisenhower contest. And they stayed divided, letting the Democrats climb back into the saddle in Congress.
The Democrats should be busy helping the Republicans tear each other apart.
Final thought: I was trying to remember the lat time I wanted advice from George Clooney.
Yeah. That was never.
15The time to identify a younger leader has long since passed. If Democrats are successful keeping the White House next year, it’s time to start the process, not 3 months before the election. I just hope we’re not forced to.
16Agreed, Steve@13. There is no time now to start over with a different candidate. That should have been started right after Biden’s inaugural in 2021. What needs to happen now is a massive get-on-board by all registered Dems. The Millennials need to go after the Gen Zs, who assuredly won’t listen to Boomers. The emphasis needs to be on getting Biden elected. Otherwise (to steal a line from TFG), “We won’t have a country any more.”
17Okay here we go. What everybody needs to remember is that the debate was the biggest Gish Gallop in the history of mankind. Yeah everybody agreed to the rules.
18BUT THE SHEER MAGNITUDE OF LIES FIREHOSED by trump could not be predicted.
Not having moderators do basic, MODERATING, as in basic fact-checking of the most BLATANT CONTINUOUS STREAM OF LIES was something that’s NEVER BEEN FUCKING DONE.
And CNN legitimized it.
Did Joe do well?
19You know what?
Not as well as I’d of liked.
But maybe it’s just me.
Prepping for debate oughta be preparing for arguments based on reality.
WHO THE FUCK could’ve predicted the alternative reality bullshit trump spouted like it was gospel?
Everybody.
And nobody could’ve been prepared for it
20Stopped reading when Nick got to “should have”. That can be useful for analysis, but not action.
21States will send ballots to overseas voters in 2.5 months. No time to change candidates at the head of the ticket.
Now, propose something practical based on those facts. Should have, would have, could have are useless.
@Harry #12
“The man has never lost an election.”
Oh, yes, he has. The one for the presidential nomination in 1988. I worked on that campaign.
22msb – Your formula is perfect except for one thing…it guarantees TFG another 4 years. Nick is right. Time for Biden to go and printing ballots is about 899 on a list of 900 issues we need to deal with.
23PP – Biden slapped the shit out of TFG in 2020 when he started the stream of lies. He thrashed Palin in 2008 and Ryan in 2012. TFG did exactly as everyone knew he would and Biden couldn’t handle it, the ONE THING he needed to do. Get the hook.
24Harry, IIRC, my town has a greater population than Delaware.
AM I the only one who thinks Jill gave Joe some cold medicine before the debate because he was coming down with something? Some of that stuff makes old people weird.
Joe Biden left 2 women sitting in a hotel room, waiting to be called to tell their story that would confirm Anita Hill’s testimony. Joe didn’t wanna piss off Danforth who suggested Clarence Thomas. He’s been on my XYZ list since then.
It’s too late to get going with another candidate. The fight at the convention will be worse than 68. Just more fodder for the Rs. Imagine the commercials.
Kamala was friends with Biden’s son. That’s the reason he picked her. There were much better candidates. So we are stuck. I’ll vote for the environment and the courts.
25@Crone #25:
“…my town has a greater population than Delaware.”
One of the reasons I love living here! It’s like a big small town.
26magats in congress actually passed a bill drumpf wanted… one that makes it illegal for non-citizens to vote in nationwide elections. Problem is that law is already on the books and has been for years.
drumpf will lie about how he alone prevented so called illegals from voting for Libs in the next election.
Everyuthing about mafats and drumpf are all predicated on lies repeated ad infinitum.
27Crone @ 25
That’s the kind of person you get with a divided mass party.
Biden’s got a longer public record than anybody younger than Strom Thurmond was. Nobody’s perfect.
Let’s ask a question: which debater revealed he believes in absurd flat-earth theories?
28IMO, we really learned nothing much from the so called debates. Except some are saying Biden’s team has been covering up his mental health. He’s still better than Trump and that’s what the polling shows.
So if the choice is Kamala vs. Trump. Trump wins again.
Why is it that the democratic party on all levels is so incompetent when it comes to telling their story. All anybody wants to talk about is inflation. IIRC, Ukraine supplies many countries with wheat. Is it any surprise supply and demand affects prices?
29Well, I just watched his press conference. The Uncle Joe we all know and love showed up. Gaffes and all. Still, what became abundantly clear was that 1) he is not senile in any way, shape or form; and 2) he has more wisdom and experience in his little finger than the entire GOP has in its collective population.
It is way too late for another candidate. Anybody but Joe at this point is a sure loser to the Orange Felon and I will not accept that outcome.
30BarbinDC
Yep.
It was a boom to Biden that it was an international press group. The furriners were sharp, serious and polite. Everything the American teevee reporters never are.
The Americanos were even shamed into behaving better although nothing can make them serious.
Everything on teevee seeks the Jerry Springer level.
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