Baptismgate Explained
By now I’m sure that you’ve heard about the Catholic priest who has resigned in shame after the Church declared all of his baptisms invalid because he used the word “we” insted of the liturgical “I” as in, “I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” It blew up last week, after the Diocese of Phoenix announced on its website that everyone baptized during the career of Phoenix priest Father Andres Arango has had their baptisms invalidated by the Church. What that means is that their subsequent first communions, marriages, and all other liturgical events in their lives are also invalid. The announcement even included a form to fill out to get a corrective baptism done.
To a post-christian infidel like me, the entire issue seems absurd, but this judgment by the Church has thrown thousands of people’s lives into serious uncertainly, and only God knows how many of those people who had died since Arango’s invalid baptisms are now burning in hell because of one wrong word. I’m sorry, but this “scandal” is complete bullshit.
So what’s really going on here? Well, as explained by another priest, actually former priest, Father Nathan Monk, it’s a diversion from an actual scandal in the Church. In a Facebook post a few days ago, Monk explained the absurdity of the Phoenix Diocese’s claim that the baptisms are invalid, noting that the only requirement is that the baptism should be in the name of the “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”, the traditional Trinity in Christianity. He explained further that even laypersons (not ordained) can baptize a person in an emergency, and those baptisms are considered valid.
In that same post, though, Monk drops the bombshell, which actually should have been obvious….The Diocese of Phoenix invalidated these thousands of baptisms on the orders of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome, which is the enforcer of rules in the Catholic Church. So why would this agency inside the Vatican do such a thing to a local priest way out in Phoenix? Monk explains it this way –
“Because the decision came down from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and this absurd story broke right after Joey Ratz aka Pope Emeritus Benedict the 16th was called to the carpet for how he handled another scandal within the Church. And guess where he was in leadership before being appointed pope? The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith! And guess which story we are talking about instead of that? The one about a priest saying ‘we’ instead of ‘I.'”
Now we get it. Monk contends, and it makes more sense than any of us would like, that the Roman Catholic Church willfully and knowingly destroyed the life long career of a devoted bilingual priest and turned the lives of thousands of people on their heads to distract church attention away from the actual villain, who is Ratzinger, in an effort to protect his corruption.
This sordid tale explains perfectly how, and more why, the Church as we know it is dying. And that death can’t come soon enough.
Surely this must be the most horrific behavior by a priest ever… except for the millions of cases of abuse covered up by the Church. I noticed the former and current pope never took personal responsibility for their attempts to cover up abuse.
1Why I leave life long institutions: absurdity. When they pull that poorly running gag you know they are not smart enough to get out of their own way, even if its an oncoming truck.If I were any of those “invalidly” baptized I would round up one helluva good lawyer and sue.
2Huh‽
3But.. but..
“Nobody expects the Phoenix Inquisition!”, per Monty, Ximenez, Biggles, Fang!
Ludicrousity to the max!
The “Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith” is, of course, the direct descendent of the 16th century Roman Inquisition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Inquisition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spanish_Inquisition_(Monty_Python)
“In 1588,[2] Pope Sixtus V established 15 congregations of the Roman Curia of which the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition was one. In 1908, the congregation was renamed the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office and in 1965 it was renamed again ***and is now known as the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.”
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4[I recently had reason to correspond with the parish I was raised in. I didn’t mention that I had become an irreligious Huxleyian solid Agnostic anti-establishmentarian by the age of twelve or fourteen, while receiving an elite education in the Church schools [1-uni].
To wit: ‘the rigorous academic program at Jesuit college prep schools in the USA: four years of religion, English, literature, science, and mathematics (concluding with calculus), three years of history, and two years of Latin and French, plus [-computer, nope] skills, study skills, and health and wholeness.’
But our religious studies were much broader and comparative than those of any of today’s parochial schools, no fanaticism at all. I was a PITA to the poor nuns and priests with certain topics, a wonder that I wasn’t expelled as a heretic; proof of a more tolerant and broadminded era long past.]
What happened to Father Arango is a disgrace. Intent matters for nothing? I refuse to believe that any god worth worshiping would condemn his/her/its followers to hell because a priest got one word wrong in a ritual.
I totally agree with what Fred Clark, over at slacktivist.com, said about this issue, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:
“The biggest step the Catholic church could take to defend the doctrine of the faith would be to abolish the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. Shut it down and salt the earth.”
5I have a very good friend who just happens to be an Episcopal priest. His reaction to this story may be found at:
6http://castoroiltree.blogspot.com/2022/02/ok-heres-one-i-wont-forget-for-while.html
and is well worth reading.
Although I am not ordained, I attend a weekly meeting with
a group who are mostly ordained. Their collective reactions are similar. The general consensus of the group is that the Church
should never try to get in the way of the Holy Spirit, who will do whatever he/she/it wants, with or without human intervention.
On skimming the Wiki for Ratzinger/ Pope Benedict XVI, it looks like this thread is a little harsh on ol’ Ratzy, imo.
The now 94y/o is one smart dude, with degrees and credentials to the max.
It appears that he actually began, and continued, a major cleanup of the seamier sides of the Church. He also had the sense to step down when, at ~85y/o, his knew he couldn’t keep the pace anymore. And still kicking at 94.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI
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Meanwhile, back at the ranch..errm, the Vatican, B16’s successor Papa Paco seems to be sailing along. He’s pissing off ‘conservatives’, so he must be mostly on the right track.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis
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7They all have problems, et al., ad infinitum :
20 years, 700 victims: Southern Baptist sexual abuse spreads as leaders resist reforms
https://web.archive.org/web/20190210075713/https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Southern-Baptist-sexual-abuse-spreads-as-leaders-13588038.php
Look, all grownups have dumped this silliness, but like some long Covid of the mind, people hang on to their indoctrinations to feel good about questions they haven’t the mental stability to handle.
The big crime here is that so many poor fools have been shaken to their core by this, and for no good reason, just to throw up some incense smoke to hide the greed and concuspience of a few bad men.
Moving on, how’s Ghislaine doing?
(The call-ins to the Atheist Experience should be … interesting … this week.)
8Forgot :
9Current Pope Francis is the first Jesuit Pope.
The Jesuits are sorta the US Marine Corps of the Catholic Church; bad ass, but the smartest. Helluva tough teachers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Jesus
I’ll believe we’ve entered the 21st century when:
1. The Brits divest their monarchy and force ALL of them to earn a living
2. The Roman Catholic church empties its coffers to benefit the poor and turn the scoundrel priests out
3. tRump and every scoundrel associated with him is prosecuted
Take that, Boomers. Some of y’all may have “missed” the 60s. I’m setting up to skip an entire century.
10What you said El Jefe:
…only God knows how many of those people…
God would know better than a group of church leaders willing to upset the lives of congregants for their own benefit & protection. If I had to guess which is more likely to end up in hell, congregants or the members of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, well, unlike the Catholic church I won’t go there.
11Anyone reading here really able to recall whether you (singular) talked about something that “you” (singular) did rather than “we” (you as a member of a group and others) did?
I have a hard time remembering what I said at my wedding — I have no idea what the preacher specifically asked to have me reply “I do.” Granted, that was a long time ago.
I haven’t read details of the priest’s actions — but unless he was reading from a script every time for thousands of baptisms, the chance that he or those he was baptizing recall “I” versus “we” is remote. And obviously, the squirming babies which made up the majority of the baptisms REALLY don’t recall.
To me, this sounds like a classic case very close to something mentioned in the New Testament:
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel!”
And we need not go into detail about what sort of camels the Catholic church has been swallowing into the maw of its bureaucracy.
12Way, way off-topic, but it involves news about the favorite radio talk show host around the WMDBS:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/us/politics/sandy-hook-legal-victories.html
Title is “How They Did It: Sandy Hook Families Gain Long-Awaited Legal Wins”. Interesting to me, since I wondered just how they got around Congress’s prohibition on lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
13PKM@10 This tail end boomer absolutely agrees with you. I didn’t ‘miss’ the 60s, just couldn’t do much about it while in elementary school. Still chuckling about skipping a whole century. Wish it was possible.
14OT: Almost 96y/o QEII has a mild case of COVID19, along with many at Windsor.
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RE: Ukraine v. Russia–
President Macron of France has apparently arranged a summit between Biden and Putin in a few days, preceded by one with SoS Blinken and FM Lavrov. If there is no attack…
Meanwhile, 75% of —all— Russian military is massed and moving around the Ukrainian borders [~190K groundpounders+air/naval, Pooty is betting the farm…steal his hogs.].
We really should encircle Kaliningrad Oblast with NATO forces, it’s the perfect time to act.
You either gots stones, or you don’t gots stones. Let DJT’s BFF know them stones are a lot bigger than either of theirs. [WWIII, WTF…?]
No need for a lot of noise and PR, just quietly move in all around the borders of Kaliningrad, and have a heavy naval force well offshore in the Baltic.
Putin has spies and surveillance, he would get ‘the message’. And with most of his military tied up near Ukraine, he’d be instantly offbalance and majorly SOL.
The Chinese would get some valuable lessons too.
Going to be an interesting week…
BBC- Ukraine tensions: Biden agrees in principle to summit with Putin
15Published 4 minutes ago:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60454818
FYI: Here’s a good NATO member and timeline map.
It also shows Kaliningrad Oblast, all by itself, sandwiched between Lithuania and Poland on the Baltic Sea [rectangular, just above the ‘and’ in Poland].
Not too far from Belarus, but a long way from the Russian western border. Another reason Vlad is tight with, and currently also holding military exercises there.
Time to squeeze Poot’s ‘nads…Kaliningrad ’em, and watch him squeal.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FME-MGkaIAANF-x?format=jpg&name=large
16Aside from the fact that, as noted, anyone can baptise someone else in a pinch, I seem to remember that the godparents and parents were co-celebrants in the sacrament of baptism, hence the use of “we”.
I definitely remember learning that the actual celebrants of the sacrament of matrimony were the husband and wife.
So, yeah, this is 100% certified bullshit and not even the most lawyerly Jesuit would disagree.
17*Religion* – the legal way to steal your money, as well as men who put dresses on .
18This is totally st00pid!!!
19There is only an “I” doing the act. When the water container floats thru the air magically then trying to drown the baby we can consider ‘WE’ as the cheeses is doing the drowning and the priest is holding the baby.
El Jefe – I, too, was bothered by the fact that any lay person can baptize someone ‘in extremis’ who asks for it so what was the big deal here? But then I had already read the bit about Ratzinger – I keep forgetting that not everyone keeps up with a broad range of news stories so it’s possible to cover this crud up.
The “Phonex Inquisition” indeed!
20Y’all reminded me of that time, way back some 35 years ago, when my very Catholic mom came to visit us in CA. We took her on a little road trip down the coast to see the sights. Stopped at the Mission of San Juan Bautista. I caught her baptizing my first born heathen baby. I’ll let her know she’s covered, though I doubt she cares. She takes after her parents. I never did believe that caca del toro about babies being born with Original Sin that needed washing away. But I guess it helped my mother sleep better. BTW, I was also a PITA at CCD as a teenager, but hoped that playing guitar with my friends at Folk Mass balanced it out.
21I suppose this means that the church hierarchy is fine with letting all those soles who weren’t properly baptized, and have since died, rot in Hell forever for the sake of one word.
22JeffA – Their relatives can all pay for novenas to be said by various (for profit) Catholic charities. It’s a win/win for the church coffers.
23Sandridge – always my fave commenter!
24As a cradle Catholic I am absolutely baffled and flummoxed. I chose not to address the situation in my own post because I really can’t defend any of it. Even if you give them as much as you actually can, it is one of those situations where people are worried more about being correct than they are about being right.
25ROBinOR @24, HoleeCarp! Thanks, mi amigo.
26Oh noes! That must mean that all the years we were muttering “WE believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,” etc etc don’t count either, so all these special ‘Murican Catlicks that have been piously professing away every Sunday HAVENT BEEN DOING IT RIGHT!! For DECADES! It DOESNT COUNT?!? Oh noes oh noes, bring on the indulgences, and step on it!
I think the ‘Murican church is on its way to splitting from Rome in a great big schism. Not going with them.
I’m a card carrying member of the Sandridge fan club too. Also Jefe’s, used to go to his own website long time ago…
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