A Continuing Conversation
Sanctity — the state or quality of being holy, sacred, or saintly.
Abortion data can be tricky due to the sometimes secretive nature of the procedure, but the CDC reported over 622,000 abortions between 2012 and 2021. That’s a ten year period. Move the decimal over one space and you get 62,000 per year. I’m not going to mince words. That’s a lot. A cursory search of births from the same year indicates that over three million children are born every year.
Obviously, there are an undisclosed number of miscarriages every year. So, it is impossible to know, but various reports would suggest that pregnancies in general are dropping. There are any number of push and pull factors that would impact that including economic factors, but we could also suggest that sex education and access to contraceptives might also have an impact on that as well.
My fuzzy math skills would indicate that after we allow for miscarriages that abortions would account for about one percent of pregnancies at least through 2021. In other words, they are relatively rare. A hefty percentage of those are due to the health of the mother or child. The idea that women are running out and getting elective abortions on the regular is just plain silly.
Demographic data shows us that gun deaths are not only higher in the United States than anywhere else in the world, but they are on the rise. The data on gun deaths is pretty close to rates of abortion. We could parse out the numbers and argue that there are more suicides than murders. However, in a discussion about life that is irrelevant. It is perfectly analogous. A woman that wants to get an abortion can find a way to do it legally or illegally if she has the means. A person that wants to commit suicide will find a way whether they have access to a gun or not if they have the means.
If we are acting on a belief that life is sacred (as the definition of sanctity would indicate above) then wouldn’t it make sense to advocate for policies that would promote that? That would be all policies. Obviously, each of these issues are complicated. In cases where the health of the child or mother are at stake we don’t want red tape to block the wishes of a woman and her doctor.
Similarly, there is a certain amount of gun ownership that we can tolerate and most wouldn’t tolerate a world where gun ownership would be completely forbidden. So, we come to the idea that a wise compromise needs to be reached on both counts. Facts are limited on the latest mass shooting in Kansas City. We know there have been some arrests and we have some basic numbers, but we are unsure of the motives.
We know what causes this. We have seen this multiple times. We’ve tried nothing and we are all out of ideas. We have tons of thoughts and prayers. I don’t want to minimize that, but what in the heck are we praying for if we aren’t praying for wisdom and the fortitude to do what needs to be done to help? The Lord works in mysterious ways, but most of the time he works through us. If we aren’t willing to do anything then the prayer is a waste of breath.
The arguments against gun control and assault weapons bans are tortured at best. I don’t give a hoot what AR stands for in an AR-15. Okay, it doesn’t stand for assault rifle. Great. To argue that I don’t get to argue for gun control because I don’t know how that stupid apparatus works is just a creative dodge. It is designed to kill people. It is designed to kill a lot of people in short order. It has no positive utility and doesn’t belong anywhere near polite society.
If you oppose common sense gun legislation and blabber on about the sanctity of life you are a hypocrite. Get your jollies anyway you want, but if your jollies present a danger to me or my family then you bet your ass I am going to argue for its regulation. If you care about life then you should care about all reasonable efforts to promote safety. Otherwise you are just full of excrement and need to sit down and shut up.
Amen!
1I sense that the Deacon touched a nerve, @Nick. You’ve given the salon a couple of good thought pieces. Thank you.
A while back, I did some research (i.e. used Google) on the percentage of pregnancies that end in miscarriage. The estimates I saw ranged from 20% to a whopping 75%. This was at a time when getting upset about stem cells was all the rage and I wondered if cells from miscarriages might be an answer. Your piece made me recall that long-ago idea.
Dobbs has put us in a horrible place. The NRA has put us in a horrible place. No one is willing to compromise, and that had put us in a horrible place.
2OT, but interesting WMDBS related nooz:
JJ’s Houston nemesis, Ms. Catherine Engelbrecht, who founded and runs the RWNJ vote-warping group ‘True The Vote’ [TTV], is about to be b-slapped by a Georgia presiding judge in one of the dozens of court cases that this group is constantly embroiled in.
“Conservative group admits it has zero evidence of Georgia ballot stuffing”:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/2/15/2223634/-Conservative-group-admits-it-has-zero-evidence-of-Georgia-ballot-stuffing
Catherine Engelbrecht:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Engelbrecht
True The Vote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_the_Vote
“A conservative group has told a Georgia judge that it doesn’t have evidence to support its claims of illegal ballot stuffing during the the 2020 general election and a runoff two months later.
Texas-based True the Vote filed complaints with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in 2021, including one in which it said it had obtained “a detailed account of coordinated efforts to collect and deposit ballots in drop boxes across metro Atlanta” during the November 2020 election and a January 2021 runoff.
A Fulton County Superior Court judge in Atlanta signed an order last year requiring True the Vote to provide evidence it had collected, including the names of people who were sources of information, to state elections officials who were frustrated by the group’s refusal to share evidence with investigators.
In their written response, attorneys for True the Vote said the group had no names or other documentary evidence to share.”
Which is essentially how most of TTV’s BS allegations wind up:
They make outrageous ‘voter fraud’ charges, get a bunch of publicity [and fund raising], warp public opinion of the voting processes, then eventually get called out for their bullshit, and after dragging it out, back down and admit that it was all specious garbage [but it brought in much more dinero to the TTV principals].
There should be some extremely serious and expensive penalties for these kinds of frivolous political machinations.
Just ponder the damage to our public political life that these lowlife Rethuglikan varmints have done in just the last few years, concerning just the Georgia 2020 elections; let alone all the other states and elections that TTV has meddled in.
3And all of this is part of a deliberate plan to destroy our democracy and nation, on behalf of vermin like Komrade Donnei.
Another good take on the TTV malignancy:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/2/15/2223632/-Why-is-this-not-repeated-over-and-over-again-like-MAGA-Sources-repeat-the-lies-over-and-over
4Good stuff today Nick! Glad to see you step outside your usual pragmatism box and vent on such serious issues. During basic training, we (the trainees) used the old M-14 for our weapons segment. The
5M-16s were needed in Vietnam. However, a small allotment of M-16s became available for our training and I was among the ones chosen to fire the weapon. Beforehand, we were subjected to several hours of classes and training about the design, function and intent of the M-16. The point was made very clear – the M-16 was created for the sole purpose of killing humans. If the 5.56 caliber projectile entered a vital organ, the organ was pulverized/destroyed. Any bones were not just broken, they were shattered/destroyed. There is no place for such a device among the civilian population – and I have misgivings about the police and military. This is a horrific machine! And, the argument that you can kill someone with a 30.06 is absolutely true. But, a five cartridge magazine versus one that can handle twenty to thirty rounds is much more lethal.
I removed myself from organized religion about 65 years ago (along with my dad). The crux of our departure had a lot to do with the hypocrisy of the church (was a Lutheran church). Never looked back.
6Today, I see a lot of parallels between the repugnantican party and the church- the hypocrisy is a key parallel.
For a little levity, one of the best political cartoons that you’ll ever see, it perfectly captures Komrade Donnei’s traitorous and treacherous vassalage.
[note iDJiT’s tiny hands and sickly orange, gotta be in the Friday ‘toons..plsplspls].
Look down in the comments for an absolutely awesome photoshoppe job of the same pair. :
https://images.dailykos.com/images/1273361/story_image/lk021524dAPR.jpg
Cartoon: Mike Luckovich on Trump and Putin:
7https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/2/15/2223623/-Cartoon-Mike-Luckovich-on-Trump-and-Putin
Sandridge, in any other time since the iron curtain went up, a kissing up to russia and now putrid putin would be a death sentence for a politician. Now, the kissing up by many repugnanticans to putin is sickening (in essence kissing trumpf’s big orange ass- does he put makeup there?). Talk about hypocrisy. Same goes for any church congregation that supports trumpf.
8dbtexas @4, Interesting boot story, but your DI’s were feeding you some bull flavored facts.
The 5.56×45mm NATO used in the M16 was actually derived from the .223 Remington* cartridge, they are nearly identical. Both have somewhat higher velocity, but impart much less energy, than the M14’s much heavier 7.62×51mm NATO rounds [.308cal, close to the 30-06].
The .223 Rem has become one of the most widely used sporting cartridges ever, and its’ ballistics are almost identical to the 5.56 used in the M16; better even, in a longer barreled sport rifle.
So they laid a little hype on y’all in boot.
Although the points about large cap mags and semi-auto actions certainly do enhance the lethality of today’s lunatics weapons of choice, the AR-15s and AK-47/74s, SKSs, etc., that we’re awash in.
* I had a bolt action .223 Remington varmint rifle in the ’60s, it packed a long range punch, or close in too.
9Steve from Beaverton @7, Aaaamen, brudda. Christo-fascist scum and autocrat worshipping anal cysts.
10Sandridge @8 Thanks for your comments. I’ve no doubt there was plenty of BS in the military – after all, I served in Vietnam, the greatest debacle (until now!) in our history. Certainly no shortage of misinformation. That said, the point of the instructor’s message was clear – a smaller caliber with a large powder charge made for a very efficient killing machine. But, the crux of my comments devolved from an article in The Atlantic after the mass killing at a high school in Miami a few years back. A substantial majority of the these events are carried out using the high capacity magazines – an unnecessary device when shooting varmints. My interest in weapons dissipated as I got older. Appreciate your expert comments.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/
11Please bring back the Friday ‘toons!
12Nick, it’s Friday so hope you don’t mind that I pop in a political cartoon only tangentially on topic:
13https://www.mcall.com/2024/02/05/browse-political-cartoons-for-the-week-of-feb-5/
Please read the CDC article again. This is what the Results sections says: A total of 625,978 abortions for 2021 were reported to CDC from 48 reporting areas. Among 47 reporting areas with data each year during 2012–2021, in 2021, a total of 622,108 abortions were reported, the abortion rate was 11.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years, and the abortion ratio was 204 abortions per 1,000 live births. From 2020 to 2021, the total number of abortions increased 5% (from 592,939 total abortions), the abortion rate increased 5% (from 11.1 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years), and the abortion ratio increased 4% (from 197 abortions per 1,000 live births). From 2012 to 2021, the total number of reported abortions decreased 8% (from 673,634), the abortion rate decreased 11% (from 13.1 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years), and the abortion ratio decreased 1% (from 207 abortions per 1,000 live births).
14Wow, trumpf’s now another $364 million poorer and banned from the real estate business in NY. The appeals will come fast and furious, of course, and the magats will go crazy.
15Make that $355 million
16Thanks Steve from Beaverton @12.
Good news on this long holiday weekend.
I’d like to hear an ad like this:
C’mon down to President Trump’s President’s Day Sale & Going Out Of Business Extravaganza! On the sidewalk in front of Trump Tower. How do we do it? We buy wrong, we manage worse, and we don’t pay our second rate lawyers!
17I have seethe caliber and mass of the M-16 round was designed to producer the maximum injury, which if not resulting in death, would need a large amount of medical resources. The profile tumbles after impacting.
But is a non-aware life of equal value compared to a cognizant self-help aware life?
We’ve got some defining to do so we can discuss properly.
18Uh … abortion numbers are a bit cloudy, but the CDC document you link to says “A total of 625,978 abortions for 2021 were reported to CDC from 48 reporting areas. Among 47 reporting areas with data each year during 2012–2021, in 2021, a total of 622,108 abortions were reported, the abortion rate was 11.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years, and the abortion ratio was 204 abortions per 1,000 live births.”
So the number is for a SINGLE year. And the procedure is not all that rare, about 1 abortion for every 5 births.
19Abortion and guns are two issues full of irony when it comes to voting. Who is getting the abortions? Let’s separate out the minority percentage of women who have some kind of medical reason, the baby has Tay-sachs, profound retardation, Thalidomide babies, whatever. I’d imagine that stuff is equally spread over the ideological spectrum. I won’t speculate on where rape victims fall on the political spectrum, although I bet somebody here knows the answer to that.
But let’s just put those aside that minority and talk about the majority of abortion seekers. Its going to be leftist women….poor women, non White women, liberal White women, etc. Sure there are going to be some right winger women who have abortions, but if we’re looking at this logically, from a voting standpoint, in the war of attrition, how many babies born to the left vs. born to the right, it’s probably not close. Leftists kill off more of their own kids than right wingers, probably due in part to peer pressure from each group, to their own.
Since we know that demographics is destiny, you’d think the attitudes on abortion would be reversed. Right wingers should WANT all the abortions they can get from blacks, illegals, and other assorted leftists, to lower their future voter pool. Conversely, leftists should be the ones fighting to make abortion harder, so they can make new voters.
The fact that this is exactly backwards is ironic….self defeating on BOTH sides.
There’s also irony with regards to guns. Right wingers want guns for the exact reasons the 2nd Amendment is in the Constitution….as a last ditch check on an out of control government. Had the colonists not had guns, we’d all be speaking English right now. [insert rimshot here]
Leftists, on the other hand….well, many of them live in dangerous urban areas. Pick any big city and see the violence, increased now by the illegal aliens in those cities. Cops and civilians hit in NYC, weekly Chicago death toll, and closer, Houston is no stranger to crime. So who actually needs guns for protection from criminals? Leftists. And here’s the kicker….right wingers saw the blm rioting and said, THIS is why we need standard capacity 30 round magazines…..for riotous mobs, to protect their families from mobs.
And what do leftists fear? The biggest fear is the J6 mob….mobs of White supremacists. Charlottesville! J6! The left fears right winger violence, and what are they supposed to use to protect themselves from those sheet clad White supremacists? Harsh language? No, they’d need guns….guns with standard 30 round magazines.
With respect to guns, the irony is one sided. The right wingers correctly understand they need those guns. The leftists, instead of trying to take them, if they were thinking critically, they’d encourage their side to strap up and get in the game, for the exact same reasons the right wingers are. Fear a Trump regime where the political opposition and their supporters are hunted down and arrested? Fear roving bands of White supremacists? Want to Stop AAPI hate? Need guns to protect ourselves from the White supremacists going around attacking all those Asians.
Irony.
20Well this is good news-
21https://www.rawstory.com/judge-rejects-attempts-to-toss-indictments-against-texas-ag-ken-paxton-keeps-april-trial/
So John in Denver that would mean either the one percent I outline or twenty percent as the other number suggests. This is where common sense enters in. Which one rings more true? Do we really believe one in five women is getting an abortion?
22Both issues– abortion and gun “rights”– were promoted by the GOP as part of their accelerated emphasis of the Southern Strategy to win elections– keep the voters confused and angry, and you’ll win elections. To paraphrase Thomas Frank, the GOP gets them to vote AGAINST abortion, and they GET tax breaks for the rich; to vote AGAINST gun control and they GET their jobs moved overseas….
The Republican Party is dissolving. It can’t reverse course. If the Dems were smart, they’d launch a two-pronged attack, one aimed at the limbic system of unaffiliated voters to get them to vote against all GOP candidates and the other offering a substantial package of reforms on infrastructure, taxation, Wall Street regulation, and so forth. But are they functional enough themselves to do so?
23Always get me thinkin Nick!
IMO Abortion is about a women’s personal decision. Period. Besides for the child’s well being, an unwanted (for what ever health or personal reason) child might be better off not being born.
IMO a persons ‘Sanctity’ is also a persons personal decision. Lol I had to fire my god and get a new one as I spiritually (hopefully) progressed and also gave myself permission to change gods anytime and as often as I needed.
My definition of god is all loving and all forgiving, or finding ones Peace, and lives within my heart so easily assailable. So I came up with this simple definition.
Religion – Finding peace by using someone else’s god.
Spirituality – Finding peace by finding your own god. And you can use religion to find your own god.
Now for the good news about birth control and recreational sex. Love me some true religion ya damn heathen hippie Liberals!!
24https://twitter.com/jennycohn1