Like We Didn’t See This Coming
After long, long years and more than a little smugness from Dick Cheney and a damn library for Dubya ….
The CIA’s harsh interrogations of terrorist detainees during the Bush era didn’t work, were more brutal than previously revealed and delivered no “ticking time bomb” information that prevented an attack, according to an explosive Senate report released Tuesday.
And just to make you run down the street naked, pulling your hair out and screaming …
Former president George W. Bush told CNN’s Candy Crowley last week that the United States was “fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the CIA serving on our behalf. These are patriots.”
“These are good people. Really good people.”
Former Vice President Dick Cheney told the New York Times that claims that the CIA was out of bounds or that the interrogation program was a rogue operations were “a bunch of hooey.”
“The program was authorized. The agency did not want to proceed without authorization, and it was also reviewed legally by the Justice Department before they undertook the program,” Cheney said.
And did we impeach him? No, we did not.
I just needed to say that.
Aaaaarghhh. Cheney oughta be in jail. I just needed to say that.
1Feinstein’s floor statement is full of facts that blow Cheney’s bloviation apart. Props to John McCain for his support of the report now on the Senate floor following Sen. Feinstein.
2Yes, Cheney belongs in jail–but not in Club Fed–put him in the general population in the worst damn prison facility we’ve got.
3Let this be his epitaph: Dick “Heinrich Himmler” Cheney.
4Perhaps we need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission similar to the one that took place in South Africa. No one would be punished for their actions, which they wouldn’t have been anyway, but at least the light of day will have been shown on the program and those who participated. And the added benefit would be that the international court system would have more information to prosecute if any of the bast*ards decide to leave the country.
5There are not enough replacement hearts in the entire world to heal the monstrosity that is Dick (he really is one) Cheney.
6He and his acolyte Bush (who will never, ever please his daddy) worshiping at the pseudo penis of big guns to make up for their failures, belong in prison, preferably one that is like the flag of our country…unlit dark (blue) chambers, stars of light on the guards headlamps, red blood from beatings and a white shroud the only way they could leave. They should be buried outside, or under an unmarked outhouse at Arlington for they are traitors of the worst sort. Impeached–heck put them in the spaces they thought were okay for people who were given no rights…it’s a nightmare of my country right or wrong…because it’s so wrong. They are chickenshit and distancing themselves as fast as they can…Bush couldn’t put the orange flight suit on and strut around fast enough—his new orange suit will honor his actions so much more…a real “mission accomplished” for The US.
Channey will never see jail…
7he is not a minority in a hoodie so is safe from the police.
I didn’t even vote for these b******s, much the opposite, but they still make me ashamed to be an American.
A one-page list of key points, clickable for more info if you can stomach it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/cia-interrogation-report/key-findings/
8@HollyAnna
If you’re not a connoisseur of prisons, and you don’t want Dickie C incarcerated in just any old prison, may I suggest …
Block C, Estelle High Security Unit, a Texas vintage, located on beautiful FM3478 near Huntsville.
Or for a more national flavor, try the “Administrative Maximum Facility (ADX)” at Florence, Colorado.
Nothing so says “we want you” like a visitor’s door that pressurizes the room when it closes. You just know nothing is getting in cause even air can’t get out.
9Years ago the big powers of the world would use pigskins to get their way with Moslems. It was quick and amazingly effective. What Cheney wanted and Dubya agreed to was perverted beyond belief and only made a bad situation hideous, something we will have to deal with for generations. No wonder Cheney and Dubya cannot travel outside the country. They would be arrested for war crimes.
10This is nothing new. Bush and the Dick Cheney were convicted of crimes against humanity. No wonder the entire world hates us with GOP thugs like these…
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2012/05/13/war-tribunal-finds-bush-cheney-guilty-war-crimes
11Bush and Cheney presided over one of the lowest points in our nation’s history and are still trying to rationalize what they ordered. Many of the current Republican pols are, of course, calling it a Democratic smear, but those rwnj’s don’t see anything wrong with the inhumane treatment of prisoners.
12The kicker is that none of it produced quality intelligence.
This is one of the dangers of letting those conservatives take over the government. The “My country, right or wrong” mentality usually means WRONG in the worst sense of the word.
These pseudo-KKKristians can rationalize torture and killing better than anyone on this earth.
With all due respect to previous commenters, we do not need a Truth and Reconciliation commission, we need justice. We will never know how many prisoners died at the hands of the CIA, but one is more than enough for those who ordered this program be carried out or who carried it out to be charged with war crimes. And the penalty for torturing someone to death is death. Forget prison, even the non-Club Fed variety: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Yu, Haynes and their ilk should be doing the air dance at The Hague.
I’ve been a tough-on-crime conservative my whole life, and it is past time we stopped coddling criminals.
13“Civilian contractors” is a horrid understatement for the criminal mercenaries hired to run rendition centers. “Rendition” another word invented by the Bush cabal of lawyers to pastry coat the pile of offal they were selling.
Shock and awe, torture, murder and every variety of humiliation. Seriously!?! Cheney really expected our forces to be met as liberators spreading democracy? Of course he didn’t, but the level of destabilization created sure surprised he and Halliburton. Yes, he has that much hubris that he thought Saddam Hussein could be removed and the Kurds, Shia and Sunni would bond at the first drop of a bomb. Must frost his chops that ISIS is moving more oil out of Iraq than his collaborators in crime.
They broke Iraq and they should pay as Lex has suggested. However, President Obama cannot fix the Bush/Cheney mess with more bombs or arms for the Iraqi security force flavor of the day.
As with Viet Nam, the only solution is a cessation of all US military interference and move forward with humanitarian aid as the Iraqi people sort out their own boundaries. Stripping Bush, Cheney and their cabal of their ill gotten war profits would pay for a lot of damage.
14I heard an R apologist say today “They were just doing their jobs.” Nuremberg didn’t happen?
15Corinne Sabo, too bad Dubya didn’t have more military experience. Then maybe he would have understood “just following orders” does not cut it under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and a whole bunch other US and international laws. Main thing is “legal and lawful” order; all other orders do not count no matter the amount of John Yoo and Alberto Gonzales “logic” and gymnastics the IOKIYAR crowd wants to slather in pig red lipstick.
16All comments here cover what I would have said.
Too bad Cheney and W. can’t take a little trip to the Hague.
17FLOOR STATEMENT BY SENATOR JOHN McCAIN ON SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE REPORT ON CIA INTERROGATION METHODS
Dec 09 2014
Washington, D.C. –
U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ) today delivered the following statement on the floor of the U.S. Senate on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence report on CIA interrogation methods:
“Mr. President, I rise in support of the release – the long-delayed release – of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s summarized, unclassified review of the so-called ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ that were employed by the previous administration to extract information from captured terrorists. It is a thorough and thoughtful study of practices that I believe not only failed their purpose – to secure actionable intelligence to prevent further attacks on the U.S. and our allies – but actually damaged our security interests, as well as our reputation as a force for good in the world.
“I believe the American people have a right – indeed, a responsibility – to know what was done in their name; how these practices did or did not serve our interests; and how they comported with our most important values.
“I commend Chairman Feinstein and her staff for their diligence in seeking a truthful accounting of policies I hope we will never resort to again. I thank them for persevering against persistent opposition from many members of the intelligence community, from officials in two administrations, and from some of our colleagues.
“The truth is sometimes a hard pill to swallow. It sometimes causes us difficulties at home and abroad. It is sometimes used by our enemies in attempts to hurt us. But the American people are entitled to it, nonetheless.
“They must know when the values that define our nation are intentionally disregarded by our security policies, even those policies that are conducted in secret. They must be able to make informed judgments about whether those policies and the personnel who supported them were justified in compromising our values; whether they served a greater good; or whether, as I believe, they stained our national honor, did much harm and little practical good.
“What were the policies? What was their purpose? Did they achieve it? Did they make us safer? Less safe? Or did they make no difference? What did they gain us? What did they cost us? The American people need the answers to these questions. Yes, some things must be kept from public disclosure to protect clandestine operations, sources and methods, but not the answers to these questions.
“By providing them, the Committee has empowered the American people to come to their own decisions about whether we should have employed such practices in the past and whether we should consider permitting them in the future. This report strengthens self-government and, ultimately, I believe, America’s security and stature in the world. I thank the Committee for that valuable public service.
“I have long believed some of these practices amounted to torture, as a reasonable person would define it, especially, but not only the practice of waterboarding, which is a mock execution and an exquisite form of torture. Its use was shameful and unnecessary; and, contrary to assertions made by some of its defenders and as the Committee’s report makes clear, it produced little useful intelligence to help us track down the perpetrators of 9/11 or prevent new attacks and atrocities.
“I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence. I know that victims of torture will offer intentionally misleading information if they think their captors will believe it. I know they will say whatever they think their torturers want them to say if they believe it will stop their suffering. Most of all, I know the use of torture compromises that which most distinguishes us from our enemies, our belief that all people, even captured enemies, possess basic human rights, which are protected by international conventions the U.S. not only joined, but for the most part authored.
“I know, too, that bad things happen in war. I know in war good people can feel obliged for good reasons to do things they would normally object to and recoil from.
“I understand the reasons that governed the decision to resort to these interrogation methods, and I know that those who approved them and those who used them were dedicated to securing justice for the victims of terrorist attacks and to protecting Americans from further harm. I know their responsibilities were grave and urgent, and the strain of their duty was onerous.
“I respect their dedication and appreciate their dilemma. But I dispute wholeheartedly that it was right for them to use these methods, which this report makes clear were neither in the best interests of justice nor our security nor the ideals we have sacrificed so much blood and treasure to defend.
“The knowledge of torture’s dubious efficacy and my moral objections to the abuse of prisoners motivated my sponsorship of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, which prohibits ‘cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment’ of captured combatants, whether they wear a nation’s uniform or not, and which passed the Senate by a vote of 90-9.
“Subsequently, I successfully offered amendments to the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which, among other things, prevented the attempt to weaken Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, and broadened definitions in the War Crimes Act to make the future use of waterboarding and other ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ punishable as war crimes.
“There was considerable misinformation disseminated then about what was and wasn’t achieved using these methods in an effort to discourage support for the legislation. There was a good amount of misinformation used in 2011 to credit the use of these methods with the death of Osama bin Laden. And there is, I fear, misinformation being used today to prevent the release of this report, disputing its findings and warning about the security consequences of their public disclosure.
“Will the report’s release cause outrage that leads to violence in some parts of the Muslim world? Yes, I suppose that’s possible, perhaps likely. Sadly, violence needs little incentive in some quarters of the world today. But that doesn’t mean we will be telling the world something it will be shocked to learn. The entire world already knows that we water-boarded prisoners. It knows we subjected prisoners to various other types of degrading treatment. It knows we used black sites, secret prisons. Those practices haven’t been a secret for a decade.
“Terrorists might use the report’s re-identification of the practices as an excuse to attack Americans, but they hardly need an excuse for that. That has been their life’s calling for a while now.
“What might come as a surprise, not just to our enemies, but to many Americans, is how little these practices did to aid our efforts to bring 9/11 culprits to justice and to find and prevent terrorist attacks today and tomorrow. That could be a real surprise, since it contradicts the many assurances provided by intelligence officials on the record and in private that enhanced interrogation techniques were indispensable in the war against terrorism. And I suspect the objection of those same officials to the release of this report is really focused on that disclosure – torture’s ineffectiveness – because we gave up much in the expectation that torture would make us safer. Too much.
“Obviously, we need intelligence to defeat our enemies, but we need reliable intelligence. Torture produces more misleading information than actionable intelligence. And what the advocates of harsh and cruel interrogation methods have never established is that we couldn’t have gathered as good or more reliable intelligence from using humane methods.
“The most important lead we got in the search for bin Laden came from using conventional interrogation methods. I think it is an insult to the many intelligence officers who have acquired good intelligence without hurting or degrading prisoners to assert we can’t win this war without such methods. Yes, we can and we will.
“But in the end, torture’s failure to serve its intended purpose isn’t the main reason to oppose its use. I have often said, and will always maintain, that this question isn’t about our enemies; it’s about us. It’s about who we were, who we are and who we aspire to be. It’s about how we represent ourselves to the world.
“We have made our way in this often dangerous and cruel world, not by just strictly pursuing our geopolitical interests, but by exemplifying our political values, and influencing other nations to embrace them. When we fight to defend our security we fight also for an idea, not for a tribe or a twisted interpretation of an ancient religion or for a king, but for an idea that all men are endowed by the Creator with inalienable rights. How much safer the world would be if all nations believed the same. How much more dangerous it can become when we forget it ourselves even momentarily.
“Our enemies act without conscience. We must not. This executive summary of the Committee’s report makes clear that acting without conscience isn’t necessary, it isn’t even helpful, in winning this strange and long war we’re fighting. We should be grateful to have that truth affirmed.
“Now, let us reassert the contrary proposition: that is it essential to our success in this war that we ask those who fight it for us to remember at all times that they are defending a sacred ideal of how nations should be governed and conduct their relations with others – even our enemies.
“Those of us who give them this duty are obliged by history, by our nation’s highest ideals and the many terrible sacrifices made to protect them, by our respect for human dignity to make clear we need not risk our national honor to prevail in this or any war. We need only remember in the worst of times, through the chaos and terror of war, when facing cruelty, suffering and loss, that we are always Americans, and different, stronger, and better than those who would destroy us.
“Thank you.”
18There speaks the honorable John McCain, the man who made a fine and respectful concession speech when he lost the presidential election. I wish more in our government felt the same way.
19McCain’s speech today was excellent, but he does so much harm elsewhere that it difficult to support him at any time. For example, he is trying to give land to an Iranian copper mining company, land in AZ that is ancestral, sacred land of the original inhabitants of this land. No way should this be tacked onto a military bill – not even a connection. So, McCain just undoes his good words above by totally ignoring the Native Americans in Arizona while he collects $$$ for brokering such a deal through subversive political activity!
20Thank you, 1smartcanerican.
21Rhea, here’s an interesting question for Senate Republicans and maybe a shocker for Mitch McConnell. Mitch assumes the GOP caucus will elect him as majority leader. Could be the saner folks might elect McCain. (apologies for any confusion, I mean saner in GOP terms)
Possibilities/probabilities .. Cruz, Ernst, Lee, maybe 6 more of a GOP number of 54. 9/54=1/6. Mitch might want to cancel the champagne, unless his he thinks his sugar FIL wants to waste it on another boat of confiscated cocaine.
I know I am sometimes slow to the debate, but sham-wow, where is that liberal media?
22Clarification: when I said “There speaks the honorable John McCain,” as he did in his concession speech, I could have added what I said when I watched him that night: “Where the [bleep] was THAT McCain all through this ugly campaign?” He can be honorable, but there’s no guarantee that he will be, especially if political gain is at stake.
23As an Arizonan, it is my contention that John McCain was on the right meds for his speech in the Senate today. His attempts to sell out the Native Arizonans is more like his “normal” behavior.
24These guys may be patriots in at least one sense of the word. They are also cold-blooded, arrogant torturers. The one doesn’t rule out the other.
25Gramiam, so many questions and too few answers by Senators McCain, Reid (NV) and Hatch from Utah as to the fringe criminal FLDS in their states. Yes, the same pedophile nuts present from Canada to Texas, Warren Jeff and his ilk.
LynnN, it has already been said/predicted by Sinclair Lewis:
26“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
(andrewsullivan.com)…from Little Ronnie Reagan: Quote For The Day
DEC 9 2014 @ 6:41PM
“The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiation of [this] UN Convention on Torture. It marks a significant step in the development during this century of international measures against torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment. Ratification of the Convention by the United States will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today.
The core provisions of the Convention establish a regime for international cooperation in the criminal prosecution of torturers relying on so-called ‘universal jurisdiction.’ Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution,” – Ronald Reagan’s signing statement on the ratification of the UN Convention on Torture.
Allow me to repeat:
“Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution.”
We now have war criminals living in our country. Bush, Cheney, and Tenet…at the very least. Let’s kill a couple thousand more unarmed black folks first, and then get around to the real criminals…and traitors. We’ve got Guantanamo all ready and geared up for their forced feeding and yard walks.
27Wrong is wrong, whether it is wrapped in a flag and hiding behind a cross or not.
28So…. what “other” country will we “lecture” this week on Human Rights Violations”?…. Maybe Cuba, Russia, Mexico, the list is endless.
With all due respect to JJ, and the hard work that she does, …. and everybody who posts comments on this non-blog. That we Democrats had control of both houses of Congress in the latter years of the Bush Administration…. and we didn’t impeach…. we didn’t indict…This is why a lot of people in this country…. and I’m among those… who have totally lost faith in both parties.
We do not bring criminals to justice….. be they LEO, or politicians. We put people in jail for smoking pot.
There isn’t any justice, and I don’t see any peace.
JMHO.
29You are all so much more eloquent than I am able to be right now. While I knew all these things were true, I am still beyond heartbroken. I’m also angry at my friends and others who refuse to take an interest in national politics. I can’t help but think that if they paid attention and voted we could have avoided so much of this inexcusable behavior. I don’t think Al Gore would have made the same decisions as Dubya and his evil twin, Dick Cheney.
30Miemaw, you are so right.
I want them in jail for war crimes
This will never go away and will be known that Obama put whistle blowers in prisons while letting bush and cheney and co
31enjoy their ill-gotten loot.
Even Republicans are complaining the CIA lied:
“The [Senate Intelligence Committee] Republicans did not dispute the report’s conclusions that the CIA’s interrogations were more brutal and the conditions of detainee confinement harsher than the agency had let on.”
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/12/09/cia-torture-gop-response/20148101/
32How do you know the report is on target and will draw fire?
Republicans don’t refer to it as “the bipartisan report from the Senate Intelligence Committee” but instead call it the “Feinstein Report”.
33Did the repubs issue a minority version or all members on board.
34Two links:
https://www.aclu.org/national-security/acts-courage-against-torture
Maj Gen Taguba (ret) is one of my heroes and has been since his brilliant work on the investigation of Abu Ghraib. A reminder that US troops tortured Philippine “insurgents” opposing the US takeover from Spain, introducing waterboarding at that time.
http://e-moon60.livejournal.com/471531.html
My post in reaction to the disgusting performances of CIA personnel on TV, including PBS NewsHour and to Alan Dershowitz, whom I wouldn’t torture but would happily see in prison the rest of his life. I posted against torture back in 2004, several times, and have done so since. I doubt this will be the last time.
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